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Two things.Trainer, amateurs, gym, then watching fights and spotting the things you were taught, and how they were used and going back to the gym and practicing them in the ring.
You can watch boxing all day, but a lot of the subtling will be lost on you until you have experienced the difference those little subtleties have on getting punched in the face.
It difficult to know how much effect, a fighter taking a little half step can have on his opponent being able to gauge range, difficult to understand how feints can freeze you, and how thats the guy doing the feinting making the other guy not throw punches, not the other guy not having the killer instinct. Thats him being out thought.
Lots of little things that all add up to make boxing the sweet science, you can see them, and be like oh, they are doing that, but you can't really understand the relative importance of each one until you have been in there.
Even subtleties about exchanging punches, that are virtually impossible for someone that has never been taught them to ever pick up on.
Like this gif right here. Most people see Canelo getting countered with a clean uppercut. The subtlety is that Canelo started that exchange expecting to take the uppercut in order to get in his body shot, and turned his head with it to take of the steam, which actually makes it look like he got hit harder, but it made the shot less jarring for him, and probably less jarring than the body shot he delivered. It was most likely something they worked on in the gym, and were planning to use to make Floyd pay for every time he countered with the uppercut, with the end goal of getting him to keep the right hand home to block the body shot.
There are just so many nuances and subtleties and movements that can be pointed out, but cant be understood until you have felt the effect. Like Canelo turning with the uppercut. You will never be able to understand that exchange until you have felt the difference between taking an uppercut clean, and turning with it, even though the the fact that he chose to take the punch to get in his body shot can be pointed out.
I think Canelo didn't know he was gonna get hit until a split second before, basically while he was firing to the body.. he was turning with that left hook which is why Floyd could catch the side of his face and turn him like that. Floyd is sneaky with that shot. Hit DLH with that same shot, famously. And others.
It's not an uppercut. It's a straight right counter.
And... I think Floyd's shot was harder, because Canelo was unrooted and turned during the execution of his shot. Essentially, Floyd has better root in that particular situation so he can generate more power.
OK it was 3 things.Comment
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Tyson when I was a kid, then Delahoya. I was only ever a casual until 05. Just really got into it. Grew up in Vegas, so we never had a local sport team for any sport to grow on me. My Uncle trained at Jonny Tocco's when I was a kid and I would go there with him when I was young. Honestly, I have learned some stuff from this forum. A Flo.mo posted Walker Smith Jr could beat Pacquiao back in 09, and a bunch Pac.tards started clowning about they never even heard of that guy. Then the, "Thats Robinson's real name." response came and I laughed.Comment
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when i was banned during may v pac,
i was relegated to slaying BOTH ptards and flowmoes on youtube.
a couple of pointed questions you can tell right away who knows boxing and who only follows floyd and manny.
they couldnt handle a battle tested poster from the p@ctard flowmoe wars.
it was like michael jordan playing pac boy one on one in basketball in the mid 80s.Comment
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I grew up watching all sorts of sports because my family have a sporting background (dad has played professional cricket, brother played junior level football for Westham and I have boxed amateur for quite a few years with a record of 21-3).
In that type of environment, I've played and watched a lot of sport and boxing just happens to be one of them.Comment
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Its actually a hybrid punch, its not a traditional uppercut, its taught in the gym as an uppercut though, since it comes from the same position, and and can be varied as to the arc it has depending on the distance of your opponent. Notice its upward trajectory...
2nd point. Canelo thew the jab and the right hand at Floyds shoulder to put Floyds balance on his back leg, that right there took off about half the power floyd could have had on the shot; which is another reason to believe that the entire combo was setup to take floyds right to get in the left to the body.
Also, Watch Floyds entire body move from Canelo's shot. It was a very good body shot. To Floyd credit, he has always taken it very well to the body. He is very well conditioned.
As for saying Canelo didn't know he was going to get hit, that's fairly naive to think. Floyd Mayweather has used that punch as his bread and butter counter to right hands for his whole career, and Floyd shot it at Canelo basically every time he threw a right hand.
The move itself is a fairly basic move taught in LA and Mexico, to turn with the right hand when you throw your hook to the body.
Its fairly clear from how far Canelo's head turns that he was turning his head with the punch. Obviously his timing wasn't perfect. Canelo doesn't have the speed to get his shoulders and head around after his right hand to get his shoulders and head around in time to take everything off the shot. But that ability to get off so quick is what makes Floyd Floyd.
If Canelo was able to turn with an unexpected shot from someone as quick as Floyd, he would have been much more competitive, but fortunately we have an entire fights worth of seeing Canelo not have the reflexes to turn with a shot he didn't know was coming to basically disprove the notion that he wasn't attempting to execute one of the more effective ways of taking away someone's right hand counter.
Its such a common counter that Freddy Roach talks about it in this video after talking about the shoulder roll. Its taught everywhere in LA and Mexico.
Its at 13 min.
Nonito Donaire use to do it as well, except instead of a body shot, he would do it to get put in the hook to the head.
If you rewatch the Montiel fight, you will see Donaire try it and land the same thing several times in the fight, taking the right hand to get off the left hand.
Its a subtlety people dont understand.
Jorge Linares vs Edwin Valero, people were confused when Linares would turn his head what appeared randomly after a combination.
Its because it was part of a route memorized combination, and the head turn was to take steam off a counter if it came back.
That is an example taken to the extreme, you usually dont see that, but combinations where you are expecting to take a punch are part of the sweet science, and knowing what openings you leave open to your opponent, and what they can hit you with off the combination, you can get in your shot and take most the steam off of theirs. Its an often overlooked part of a good defense.
My point though is that there are things that no matter how much boxing you watch, until someone teaches you what is happening, and why, you will never figure it out on your own. Someone watching seeing someone take that right hand, wont ever connect the dots that they might be taking it on purpose and doing something to minimize the effect it has to create an opening for their own offense.Last edited by !! Shawn; 08-30-2015, 05:58 PM.Comment
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That's brilliant.
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