Why Does Gennady Golovkin Fear Greatness?

[just the facts]

Slightly off topic...
Hagler almost lost to Duran. Give credit to Duran for trying to force the fight against a bigger man.

Duran got testicular fortitude ggg can only dream about

[b00g13man]

Would you have asked Marvin Hagler this question also?

I thought from a mere observational standpoint, that Ward was the P4P skilled fighter of the two. You know --- the kind of guy who is expected to weight climb though divisions and use his sweet science to oubox much bigger fighters who are also great.

Why can't GGG just fight at 160, keep defending his belt until he finally collects that Lineal Title that has been escaping him? The focus should be on what Ward does with his greatness, not GGG. Maybe GGG is not the most feared from 154-168, which was just promotional hyperbole. And those of you who continue to hang on to these words in order to get him to move up, when the Lineal 168 champ cannot even bring himself to fight a tomato can at 175, but had to weight test at 172 to see if he can deal with the size and strength of a Light-heavyweight.

I don't recall Team Hagler saying they were willing to fight everyone from 154-168 and then negotiating to fight other fighters at 168.

[cupocity303]

I don't recall Team Hagler saying they were willing to fight everyone from 154-168 and then negotiating to fight other fighters at 168.

Technically 164 is still withing the 154-168 weight group.

Secondly, are you gonna keep hanging that quote around his neck forever? Is this hyperbolic comment the only reason we have this outrage? What if he never said it? Would he be fighting campaigning at 160 right now without any criticism?

[cupocity303]

I addressed Hagler in my opening post. I anticipated every counter argument beforehand.

Or so you think. Lets have a look at some logical inconsistencies if you will. Or things you may have overlooked.

1. Puts him #1 on the pound for pound list upon the retirement of Floyd Mayweather

Ignoring the fact that P4P rankings and criteria are subjective, scoring one win does not put one at the Top of the P4P rankings. And if it does, that's because everyone else beneath hasn't achieved squat to deserve being ranked higher.

2. Makes him the biggest star in the sport of boxing

How does beating Ward make him the biggest star in Boxing? Ward is a ballroom fighter. From a pure Star power standpoint, a guy like Canelo Alvarez will always be a bigger star for years to come, since he is not even in his mid 20's yet.

3. Makes him a title holder in 2 weight divisions with the opportunity to be lineal champ in 2 weight divisions simultaneously

He is not the Lineal Middleweight Champion. Unless you're calling for this fight in a future date where GGG already disposed of Cotto/Canelo and became the Lineal and Recognized Champion.

Hall of fame fighters in the past capitalized on these opportunities:

Pac moving up 8 weight classes and jumping 2 to defeat De La Hoya
Hopkins jumping 2 to defeat Tarver
Floyd moving up 4 weight classes and moving up to defeat De La Hoya
Jones moving up from MW to HW and winning titles in 4 weight divisions
Duran moving up 2 to defeat Leonard and winning titles at 160 after starting his career at 119

Shouldn't you be comparing Andre Ward to these guys?

And how would it have looked if Bernard Hopkins jumped up in weight before he became the Undisputed Middleweight Champion? That's essentially what you want GGG to do.

Why don't Floyd be great and move up to fight GGG?

Answer: Floyd's legacy in boxing is established. Now it's GGGs turn.

No. We don't need Floyd to move up. It's Andre Ward's turn to move up if he wants to be compared to the likes of Floyd or Roy Jones Jr,. the two most recent famous examples of P4P weight climbers who used their skills to beat bigger men.

WARD should be the focus. An Olympic Gold Medalist and P4P regarded as one of the most skilled. Yet he is still fighting in one weight class as if he were as limited as Carl Froch (The Cobra knows his limits therefore he never moved up to 175).

Hagler never moved up

Answer: Because 168 wasn't really a recognized/established division yet. And if he had the opportunity to face one of the best pound for pound fighters in the world by moving up, I believe he would.

Moving up is easier for smaller fighters

So why doesn't Ward move up to 175 since it's easier to move up for smaller fighters? GGG and Kovalev have relatively the same amount of hype behind them and Kovalev at least has three belts that Ward could pick up, though just like with GGG, he wouldn't be beating the Lineal Champion (that is Stevenson).

See Hopkins and Jones above

GGG moving up right now is the equivalent to Hopkins moving up before he defeated Tito Trinidad. And he wouldn't have a Middleweight legacy or a 160 signature win to speak of.

Does Ward fear greatness by not moving up to fight Kovalev?

Yes. And he missed out on another opportunity for greatness by not moving up to defeat Dawson.


Discuss!!!

[/QUOTE]

Excellent finish to your thread. The Focus should be on Ward and what he does with his time in Boxing, not on GGG (a guy who hasn't even won a Real Championship yet at 160) simply because of one hyperbole comment about being the most feared fighter from 154-168. How long are fans gonna keep hanging that comment around his neck?

[-PBP-]

Or so you think. Lets have a look at some logical inconsistencies if you will. Or things you may have overlooked.




Ignoring the fact that P4P rankings and criteria are subjective, scoring one win does not put one at the Top of the P4P rankings. And if it does, that's because everyone else beneath hasn't achieved squat to deserve being ranked higher.




How does beating Ward make him the biggest star in Boxing? Ward is a ballroom fighter. From a pure Star power standpoint, a guy like Canelo Alvarez will always be a bigger star for years to come, since he is not even in his mid 20's yet.



He is not the Lineal Middleweight Champion. Unless you're calling for this fight in a future date where GGG already disposed of Cotto/Canelo and became the Lineal and Recognized Champion.




Shouldn't you be comparing Andre Ward to these guys?

And how would it have looked if Bernard Hopkins jumped up in weight before he became the Undisputed Middleweight Champion? That's essentially what you want GGG to do.



No. We don't need Floyd to move up. It's Andre Ward's turn to move up if he wants to be compared to the likes of Floyd or Roy Jones Jr,. the two most recent famous examples of P4P weight climbers who used their skills to beat bigger men.

WARD should be the focus. An Olympic Gold Medalist and P4P regarded as one of the most skilled. Yet he is still fighting in one weight class as if he were as limited as Carl Froch (The Cobra knows his limits therefore he never moved up to 175).





So why doesn't Ward move up to 175 since it's easier to move up for smaller fighters? GGG and Kovalev have relatively the same amount of hype behind them and Kovalev at least has three belts that Ward could pick up, though just like with GGG, he wouldn't be beating the Lineal Champion (that is Stevenson).





GGG moving up right now is the equivalent to Hopkins moving up before he defeated Tito Trinidad. And he wouldn't have a Middleweight legacy or a 160 signature win to speak of.

Excellent finish to your thread. The Focus should be on Ward and what he does with his time in Boxing, not on GGG (a guy who hasn't even won a Real Championship yet at 160) simply because of one hyperbole comment about being the most feared fighter from 154-168. How long are fans gonna keep hanging that comment around his neck?[/QUOTE]

Ward should fight Kovalev and I believe he will. But GGG vs. Ward is the best fight to be made in boxing right now so that's the one I want to see first. And it can be made right now as both fighters need an opponent to close the year.

[b00g13man]

Technically 164 is still withing the 154-168 weight group.

Secondly, are you gonna keep hanging that quote around his neck forever? Is this hyperbolic comment the only reason we have this outrage? What if he never said it? Would he be fighting campaigning at 160 right now without any criticism?

Read what I said again. Why the hell wouldn't I hold it against him when his fanboys and team keep spreading lies and misinformation, clucking about how he's "avoided" when he's clearly not?

[cupocity303]

Read what I said again. Why the hell wouldn't I hold it against him when his fanboys and team keep spreading lies and misinformation, clucking about how he's "avoided" when he's clearly not?

What his "fanboys" say is not a criteria for why he should commit certain career moves.

Take away GGG's "I'm the most feared from 154-168" hyperbole comment, and nobody has a credible argument as to why he should rush a move to another weight class in a very risky fight, when he hasn't even won the real title at 160 yet. All one has is his quote about being the most feared.

The thing with Ward is that he doesn't have to say things like "I'm the best or most feared from 160 to 175" and be called out on it. Even if he stays humble and doesn't say a word, there is still a credible argument for him to move the hell on up already, particularly if you're not gonna stay active and rack up consistent title defenses. You've won the Super Tournament, you have become the recognized champ, you have unified trinket belts -- calling him on his stagnation is a given.

[-PBP-]

What his "fanboys" say is not a criteria for why he should commit certain career moves.

Take away GGG's "I'm the most feared from 154-168" hyperbole comment, and nobody has a credible argument as to why he should rush a move to another weight class in a very risky fight, when he hasn't even won the real title at 160 yet. All one has is his quote about being the most feared.

The thing with Ward is that he doesn't have to say things like "I'm the best or most feared from 160 to 175" and be called out on it. Even if he stays humble and doesn't say a word, there is still a credible argument for him to move the hell on up already, particularly if you're not gonna stay active and rack up consistent title defenses. You've won the Super Tournament, you have become the recognized champ, you have unified trinket belts -- calling him on his stagnation is a given.

That's not true:

1. He's shown interest in fighting Froch and Chavez Jr. at the full 168 lb weight limit

2. He came out a month ago criticizing Ward for not wanting the fight

3. His team has been the one's bringing up Ward's name in the media over the past several weeks

These are all indications that he has shown interest in possibly moving up. If he has no interest in fighting Ward at 168 they should just say our priorities are at 160 right now and we are not interested in taking that risk with bigger money fights on the table.

[ИATAS]

That's not true:


1. He's shown interest in fighting Froch and Chavez Jr. at the full 168 lb weight limit

2. He came out a month ago criticizing Ward for not wanting the fight

3. His team has been the one's bringing up Ward's name in the media over the past several weeks

These are all indications that he has shown interest in possibly moving up. If he has no interest in fighting Ward at 168 they should just say our priorities are at 160 right now and we are not interested in taking that risk with bigger money fights on the table.

There is interest down the road a little but you gotta understand Golovkin is one fight away from fighting Canelo in a big PPV fight. If what they're saying happens, that the WBC puts it in writing GGG gets winner of Canelo/Cotto, that means Golovkin can take a unification fight in lemieux next while he waits, and fight the guy they think is going to win (Canelo) in around May. This would be for the belt Golovkin has been waiting for YEARS to fight for. After that, a Ward fight is still there.

They have consistently said over and over and over that Golovkin's priority is unifying 160. They've made that perfectly clear. Not sure how you miss it.

[-PBP-]

There is interest down the road a little but you gotta understand Golovkin is one fight away from fighting Canelo in a big PPV fight. If what they're saying happens, that the WBC puts it in writing GGG gets winner of Canelo/Cotto, that means Golovkin can take a unification fight in lemieux next while he waits, and fight the guy they think is going to win (Canelo) in around May. This would be for the belt Golovkin has been waiting for YEARS to fight for. After that, a Ward fight is still there.

They have consistently said over and over and over that Golovkin's priority is unifying 160. They've made that perfectly clear. Not sure how you miss it.

Nothing is perfectly clear when it comes to that camp. One week there is a press release about Froch, the next week there are 3 press releases about Ward ducked him, the next week they say he never said that, the next week, they talk about Cotto/Canelo, then Froch said GGG tried to drain him, then they come back and said he didn't, then one week Lara didn't respond then this week, they were never interested to begin with, one week its everybody from 154 to 168 then its only leaving 160 for PPV fights. They are all over the place.