The Ali aftertaste....

[Joe Beamish]

So Floyd doesn't knock people out? I thought this was called 'Boxing', not KOing.

Please remember that everyone loses power respectively as they climb weights, especially 5. Floyd hasn't KO'd recently 1) He is so skilful he does not need to take the risk 2)He's been fighting larger fighters E.g. Canelo, Maidana, Cotto.

The young Floyd that fought fighters at lower weights hurt people. Remember Corrales, Hatton, both unbeaten but had been stopped by Floyd?

And remember, at Heavyweight, anyone can stop someone

Nobody stopped Ali!

But as for Floyd, I like his KO win against Hatton, but I don't consider Hatton to be on par with the opponents Ali (and other fighters such as Leonard or Duran) beat in their prime. Sorry.

Knocking out a prime Oscar De La Hoya or a prime Sugar Shane would have put Floyd up there, but he didn't fight them them in their primes, and he didn't knock them out even when they were old.

[Bozbay]

Nobody stopped Ali!

But as for Floyd, I like his KO win against Hatton, but I don't consider Hatton to be on par with the opponents Ali (and other fighters such as Leonard or Duran) beat in their prime. Sorry.

Knocking out a prime Oscar De La Hoya or a prime Sugar Shane would have put Floyd up there, but he didn't fight them them in their primes, and he didn't knock them out even when they were old.

Yes anyone CAN. No one has even come close to stopping Floyd. Imagine if Floyd lost to a fighter who was 6-1.

Once again this is boxing, it's about winning. Not knocking someone out.

[Joe Beamish]

Yes anyone CAN. No one has even come close to stopping Floyd. Imagine if Floyd lost to a fighter who was 6-1.

Once again this is boxing, it's about winning. Not knocking someone out.

I was responding to your question, "what's wrong with Floyd's offense?"

Nothing. But it's not a stellar offense, either.

Back to the topic of the thread, you think one fighter -- Floyd -- was a better boxer than Ali. Right? Fine.

Most intelligent people would probably disagree, but there's no way of knowing. You have to define your criteria.

Skill-wise defensively, nobody is more impressive than Floyd; I agree. But I don't think his resume matches up to lots of fighters. He simply didn't beat great fighters in their prime. This may not be his own fault; I'm not totally up to speed on whether he "retired" to duck guys such as Williams. I really don't care WHY he didn't fight some of those guys.

[Boxing1836]

In terms of boxing alone, I think Ray Leonard and Floyd have only just surpassed him. That's it

-floyd could have fought cotto when he was undefeated, but he fought him after two knockout losses
- he could have fought pacman when he was on his legendary run, but he fought him after he got knocked out
-he could have fought paul williams when he was an undefeated welterweight, he never even got near paul williams


dont get me wrong he has good wins, but he really has no one to blame but himself if he doesn't get the respect like Ali did, not just personality, but fighting people at the right time, not when they are past it. Ali fought frazier when he was undefeated and beat him twice, faced norton in his prime and beat him, beat sonny liston with ease, faced George Freaking foreman who was undefeated and the prime of his career. Knocking out Foreman would be the equivalent of floyd going to 160 with no catch weight and knocking out golovkin, which we all know wouldn't happen.

[Joe Beamish]

I gotta bounce.

Just want to say, I disagree with the premise of this thread that to consider Ali the greatest boxer of all time is somehow completely insane or misguided.

Ali deserves mention with anyone due to his incredible movement in the ring, his ring generalship, his speed (look at that invisible KO punch of Liston!), his grace, his jab, his versatile and devastating use of the 1-2 combo...and his great, great resume of defeating truly great fighters in their prime.

I'd put Leonard up there, too...but that's about it. Robinson was incredible but didn't beat truly great fighters to the same degree.

Those are my made-up criteria; you have to share your own.

But the original premise -- "Gosh, it seems idiotic to rate Ali as the best boxer, because really he was just a charismatic dude outside of the ring" is totally off base.

You really need to put like 10 dudes above him in order for that to be true.

[imperial1]

Ali's ring IQ and Mentality is what separated him from his peers ..It wasn't just boxing with Ali it was that mental warfare is where he also excelled at ..

[////]

Floyd is 5x as skilled as Ali... and I hate Floyd.

You just can't compare the sloppy local nostalgia era with modern athletes.

Joe Frazier could not run 100 yards without looking like he was going to die, it's on tape. Back then just being a "tough guy" could take you a long way in boxing, nowadays you'd get exposed within you first 5 fights.

[Motofan]

Ali doesn't even consider himself to be the best of all time.

He says its this guy...

[imperial1]

Floyd is 5x as skilled as Ali... and I hate Floyd.

You just can't compare the sloppy local nostalgia era with modern athletes.

Joe Frazier could not run 100 yards without looking like he was going to die, it's on tape. Back then just being a "tough guy" could take you a long way in boxing, nowadays you'd get exposed within you first 5 fights.

Wiith all that skill who did Floyd display that against that were on the level of Ali's opponents ?




And Fraizer fought in 15 RD fights and could crack name one HW today that can fight for a full 3 minutes while also moving their head ?

[MrTambourineMan]

I was wondering what point the OP was trying to make, and it's another 'Let's ****ride Floyd by denigrating Past ATGs' - because that's the only way Floyd can ever and will ever be Compared to the true greats.

If you think Floyd is even close to Ali, then you are either:

A. ******

B. Biased

Or

C. ****** and Biased.