Cassius Clinch...........

[KnockoutNed]

Only Wlad nuthuggers like to make these Ali comparisons. Ali only started excessively clinching at a point when he was over the hill against opponents much better than Wlad has ever faced in his entire career.
Still even this Ali was exchanging with the likes of a young prime George Foreman. The nuthuggers were saying Wlad was prime when he was KOing immobile punching bags whilst excessively clinching. Take that way from him and his lack of skills get brutally exposed.
Wlad isn't fit to spit shine Ali shoes.

[Tom Cruise]

You are a fool anyone that looks from your first response to me ,it shows you clearly said Ali was better in the 60's and fought in the best era of boxing....you really are a dope!i'll end it there.Again...

I havent said anything about the 60's being the best era in boxing in this thread. The quality of the era is completely irrelevant to what we are talking about.

Again, please stay on topic

[Rockin']

There are opponents that you're going to have to tie up, it's the nature of the sport. Ali tied guys up that needed to be tied up. Klitchko punches and then ties up no matter who he fights. .

[juggernaut666]

I havent said anything about the 60's being the best era in boxing in this thread. The quality of the era is completely irrelevant to what we are talking about.

Again, please stay on topic

Just go to page 2 you CLEARLY talk about BOTH wlads and Alis opponents about using clinching.,the quality of era would show Ali is the one using excessive clinching against inferior opponents ,that was the point ,you just dont get it ...

[juggernaut666]

There are opponents that you're going to have to tie up, it's the nature of the sport. Ali tied guys up that needed to be tied up. Klitchko punches and then ties up no matter who he fights. .

If Ali had a high k.o percentage this would be agood debate however you cannot really win this when Wlad has /had about 90 % K.O percentage .

[low blows]

It comes from the complete lack of inside game by both fighters, the difference is Ali's punch variety and movement was more exciting when outside.

Also Frazier is a much much much better Heavyweight than Jennings would ever be.

While Frazier would get flattened now if he employed the same training methods today. He is clearly a more skilled fighter than Jennings. Really comparing today's fighter to fighters from the 70's is a joke in all weight classes.

In the lower weight classes because of weight cuts bigger men fight in weight classifications that they could never make without water cuts. In the heavyweight division because of weightlifting and PED's most heavyweights from the past would be cruiserweights ie Joe Frazier.

[PainfromUkraine]

If you can't give free passes, then it has absolutely no relevance whether Ali fought tougher opponents or was over the hill - that's giving a free pass based on "its OK to clinch, but only if it's against someone good". Then you have to give Wlad a free pass saying he has a china chin and needs to clinch in order to win or wants to keep a fight on the outside. That's following the logic that a past prime Ali had to clinch or it was OK, to beat tough opposition.

We can't give free passes to anyone - either clinching is acceptable or it isn't, regardless of the circumstances.

Personally it is frustrating and ruins the tempo of a fight but is sometimes unavoidable and IS part of the game, to some extent at least.

But we must be fair and objective in a debate like this, and not try to move the goalposts.

[Tom Cruise]

Just go to page 2 you CLEARLY talk about BOTH wlads and Alis opponents about using clinching.,the quality of era would show Ali is the one using excessive clinching against inferior opponents ,that was the point ,you just dont get it ...

I talk about how Ali clinched against the best fighters in his era, whereas Wlad clinches against some absolute bums from this era, like lepai or mormeck. From there you went on a random tangent talking about how much better this era is than the 60's.

Christ. Ive had more coherent debates with Elroy

[Mr.Fantastic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMOIWWyNHJs


How much holding did Ali do, he held so much, blah blah blah

People forget a lot of these HW fights are clinch fests. Some of the fights they mention as great have many rounds in between them that has them clinching a lot with a round here and there as exciting.

[Rockin']

If Ali had a high k.o percentage this would be agood debate however you cannot really win this when Wlad has /had about 90 % K.O percentage .

It does not change the fact that he punches and clinches, punch and clinche, it's never ending.

The punchers are supposed to be the ones getting tied up, not initiating the holding.