Lets talk about James Toney.

[Eastcoast]

Even in that Jackson fight he was in a bit of trouble.

But I still think Gerald is or could've been a great. First off, it's quite unfair he wasn't given a first round KO in the Benn fight.

And, if he had a proper trainer, even going against a someone like Benn at your first fight at 168, I think he could've beaten him soundly. Gerald needed an uppercut for the ducking and diving of Benn. Benn ended up being more effective than I would've thought, that night. I mean, the ducking just ended up being surprisingly effective at avoiding that straight right, over and over.

A McClennan Toney fight would be super interesting. I don't think it would be so straightforward at. That ridiculous straight right of McClennan was great. At 160, anyone getting hit with clean would be out. And he was so fast and relentless. But Toney did like to duck and dive coming in, and we saw how Benn did that against McClennan. And Toney is indeed a great.

His inside game was so damned smooth and powerful. Never quite seen anybody do it like that.

Pretty much agree. Gerald was unfulfilled potential, between his own personal issues and King sitting on him. He worked the jab to set up that right real good. Going up in weight for Benn, you hear his training was slacked, all around sad.

Toney was just a rare natural fighter. Yeah Miller showed him the way, but Toney was able to absorb it. Very rare individual.

[KillerJones]

Pretty much agree. Gerald was unfulfilled potential, between his own personal issues and King sitting on him. He worked the jab to set up that right real good. Going up in weight for Benn, you hear his training was slacked, all around sad.

Toney was just a rare natural fighter. Yeah Miller showed him the way, but Toney was able to absorb it. Very rare individual.

Yea, his training for that fight was very loose. As I remember it he was training himself essentially. For a fight against someone like Benn at 168, that is not good enough. I am sure if he was still with Steward, he would've been training hard and practicing uppercuts all day long. Also another thing, Benn was really ducking low in the fight, you're not meant to duck below your waistline. He was ripe for uppercuts in the fight. You know if the fight didn't end like that, it would be a bona fide classic.

Although, Geralds game was built around overwhelming and swarming his opponents, and it actually did work, as most refs know you have to fall out of the ring to get an extra ten seconds. So his adopted approach, he got none of the advantages, and had to pay later.

Part of it is also, he underestimated Benn. But someone like Gerald, like you said massive unfulfilled potential. When you have such an incredible straight right there is so much you can do in a ring with good boxing IQ and different tactics. It's a bit sad he isn't mentioned much anymore.

[SouthPawHitman]

Man had all the talent in the world, was tough as nails and took no ****...even as a fat slob he was beating top fighters

I have a certain amount of admiration for guys who can go out there and beat top guys while living an unhealthy lifestyle or not training as hard as others.

Like Toney.
Carlos Monzon was another guy.
Ray Leonard
Kelly Pavlik
Hatton
Sweat Pea
Chavez Sr

[KillerJones]

I have a certain amount of admiration for guys who can go out there and beat top guys while living an unhealthy lifestyle or not training as hard as others.

Like Toney.
Carlos Monzon was another guy.
Ray Leonard
Kelly Pavlik
Hatton
Sweat Pea
Chavez Sr

As long as they can live the crazy party lifestyle and not ruin their lives or careers. Certainly wouldn't put Pavlik there. Calzahage, Oscar, and Benn was a party monster too. Apparently popping ecstasy, drinking and smoking weed.

[Showtime..]

James trained like a MFer every time out. He just always ballooned up between fights and then would come in and have to kill himself drying out to make the weight for the next fight. Him at Cruiser and Heavyweight is just were he ended up being comfortable.

James trained his ass off, literally

Imagine if Bradley had a little less discipline he could turn out like Toney. Imagine Bradley fighting at 160 or 168 as a fatty.

[IronDanHamza]

Imagine if Bradley had a little less discipline he could turn out like Toney. Imagine Bradley fighting at 160 or 168 as a fatty.

Where's the comparison?

They're nothing alike what so ever other than both are black.

[Elroy1]

Any boxing fan should appreciate Toney to some extent one way or another. An old school fighter, a great one too. To me he is an all time great. Having said that, he should have retired long ago and never fought as a heavyweight.

Although limited as a HW, he gave a good account of himself I thought.

Only really the Klitschko's and some of the longer (like Thompson) or faster (like Haye) fighters would have really ran through him.

[Tom Cruise]

I was watching the Jirov fight the other day, great fight.

Toney was a beast no doubt about it. Sometimes wonder if his chin was just too damn solid for his own good though. He seemed to lack any fear of being punched and got caught with some silly shots because of it.

But when your faulting a fighter for having a cast iron chin, there cant be that many faults to pick

[Showtime..]

Where's the comparison?

They're nothing alike what so ever other than both are black.

You missed. Bradley likes to balloon up greatly during his time off, but busts his ass during camp. Somebody mentioned earlier that Toney was the same way.

[therealpugilist]

He fought in one of the deepest era's in middleweight history and won titles at 160, 168, and 190.



If you look at it there are very few people to start at middleweight or lower and have success at heavyweight and that means a lot.


Only Roy Jones who fought one time @ heavy, Bob Fitzsimmons, Ezzard Charles, Jimmy Bivins, Archie Moore, Sam Lanforde, Georges Carpentier started so low and could compete and beat the big boys.


IMO that's a more significant feat than collecting trinkets in shallow weight classes also his skills are on par with the greatest who ever lived.



IMO id put toney top 30 all time based off skills, ability to compete at an advanced age, falling off and winning his last title a decade after his first.



James Toney was a true all time great, its crazy if he had the work ethic of an evander holyfield or Floyd Mayweather he had the talent to be top 10 all time