The Official Miguel Cotto-Canelo Alvarez Master Thread

[Don Pichardo]

This shyt got me pumped. WAR COTTO!!!

Greent. Great post

[JmH Reborn]

Cotto vs Canelo: Breakdown - Fans welcomed

This is a thread for boxing fans and those who are fans of BOTH fighters who actually watch boxing - we got two warriors agreeing to fight each other and this forum is littered with casuals and basement dwellers calling the fighters names and disrespecting them. I'm going to try and break down the fight as I see it; welcome lively and respectful dialogue. I am a fan of both. So whoever wins and loses will be a bittersweet moment. Anyways, lets go:

Age/Experience: I think it's prudent to talk about the the biggest factor in the fight. This has the makings of a classic passing of the torch type of fight, glossed over with a championship and heritage. Canelo is younger and fresher and hasn't really been in a true firefight.The Kirkland fight was about the biggest firefight he's been in and it lasted a few rounds and Kirkland was pretty wild. Cotto on the other hand has been in countless memorable and devastating fights. Torres, Margarito, Pacquiao, Judah and Mosley were fights that leather was flying. Some he won, some he lost. To some, this experience is a deciding factor and others it's a calling that the time is near. Cotto has a 10 year age disadvantage and has openly talked retirement and has long passed his prime; although he's fighting at a good level lately. Can Cotto's body withstand the youthful and hungry Canelo? Advantage: Canelo

Power: Canelo has had some cool KOs in his career. He flattened Kirkland in spectacular fashion, Baldomir and Cintron went down hard - however all these fighters were washed up. He clearly has respectable power, as shown in Trout and Lara fights. Lara particularly was less than eager to engage after a night of body shots. Canelo has proven power at 154-155. Cotto has KO'd foes in four separate divisions and has hurt, save for Margarito every fighter he has faced. At 160, he has put down men significantly larger than himself. He seems to have mastered punch placement to compliment his natural strength. Advantage: Cotto

Accuracy/timing: Both men possess a high level of accuracy and timing. Both has shown an uncanny skillset in disrupting rhythm of fighters and capitalizing on mistakes. Both are boxer/punchers, not particularly known for lightning speed however capable of catching those unaware. Canelo however has only fought one truly speedy individual, Mayweather who like against Cotto was able to time the timer. Cotto however has been in the ring against Malignaggi, Mosley [the relevant version] Judah, Pacquiao and has honed in on his timing. Cotto should have an easier time catching Canelo coming and going than Canelo will of Cotto. Advantage: Cotto

Footwork: Perhaps Canelo's glaring weakness; especially one who composes himself as a natural counterpuncher. Cotto is fleet footed when he wants to be, stationary as he seeks to be, side-to-side and more. Cotto's greatest arsenal in his fight against Canelo is his ability confuse him and force him to reset before every punch. Cotto was able to out-maneuver Mayweather at times and others. When fighters stay within reach of Canelo, he's at his most dangerous ala Kirkland. It'd be a fool's choice for Cotto to remain in the pocket for long durations against Canelo. At this stage of Canelo's career, we forget he's been fighting for 10 years as a pro - developing his footwork will probably never happen. This isn't "Southpaw." Advantage: Cotto

Chin/durability: Cotto probably has the most underrated chin in boxing today. He has been wobbled and hobbled, juked and jived and danced like no tomorrow; but only one man put him on his butt, Manny Pacquiao. Torres I suppose dropped him, but that was clearly a push. What fighter has not been hobbled? I am not sure why he gets discredited. He gets caught flush at the right spot, anyone can get hurt. Cotto has shown tremendous durability in his career. He fought Margarito in their first fight with a broken nose in the 2nd round until waved off in the 11th. He was in firefights with Chop Chop and Torres and fought through punishing shots. He lasted 12 rounds with Pacquiao IN HIS PRIME - when fighting him mattered. The fight was out of hand after the 6th round, but he continued. He took massive shots in most of his fights and may have wilted, but never withered. With all that being said, Canelo's body, doesn't have the wear and tear of the aforementioned fights. Detractors like to post funny gifs of "Lil Big Cotto" hurting him; but Canelo was truly a kid at the time and was just caught; even Chris Algieri can hurt a man every once in a while. Canelo has taken flush shots and eaten them well. His body has yet to endure punishing fights yet. The power punchers he's fought had nothing left to give, Mosley and Angulo to test his durability. Canelo's durability/chin is something of an unknown; however the benefit of the doubt must be given due to age and ring wear and tear. Lastly, post the first Margarito fight - Cotto's face/skin does not hold up, especially in the area surrounding the left eye.Advantage: Canelo

Stamina: The Achilles heel perhaps of both fighters. This is where Cotto's experience will help him the most. Both fighters are some of the best 8 round fighters fighting today - and they can conserve just enough to last 12. Both are their most dangerous early on; which leads to exciting finishes. Cotto was all over Mayweather the first eight rounds and heading to the 9th, a 4-4 score was not out of the question; however Cotto was clearly spent and Mayweather swept the last four. Canelo admit tingly was tired after 2 rounds with Kirkland and has a propensity to take rounds off to recover, in many of his fights. Those lull moments benefit the older fighter a great deal in this instance. Canelo's power seems to fade deep in to fights, like Cotto. Cotto has scored late fight KO's in his career, but those were in years long passed. Advantage: Even

Defense: Neither guy stands out or apart from eachother when it comes to defense. Both get hit flush and both have shown defensive skills - when they choose to. Under the tutelage of Steward and Pedro, Cotto was probably at his defensive best. Under Roach, Cotto seems to have mixed in some of that defensive experience with his offensive attack. Against Mayweather, he kept Floyd at his lowest connect percentage in Floyd's career. Canelo has clearly been working on defense and headmovement in fights against Lara and Trout, and those are developing; however I think the ceiling has been reached with his trainer. They have enough defensive skills to not let the fight devolve into a skill-less brawl, but get hit enough to make it super exciting: Advantage: Even

Corner: Sometimes the most overlooked aspect of any fight and something Cotto knows all too well, the detriment of not having top shelf corner. He was at a huge disadvantage against Pacquiao by having his water boy "work" his corner and even against Mayweather, Diaz for how great he is under an amateur system couldn't offer anything. Roach, love him or hate him knows fighters and studies them inside out and with Cotto has a perfect pairing of offensive mindset with offensive coach. Cotto benefits here because of the knowledge he brings from previous corner men. Canelo's corner has taken him far, but at this point I don't believe can take him farther. Against Mayweather, they had no answers to give the befuddled fighter, no change of course. They saw the trainwreck as it was happening and could not help Canelo in any way. Canelo could very well be at the point where Cotto was with his uncle - winning in spite of his corner. Another aspect of his corner is Cotto's strength and conditioning coach Gavin Macmillan has worked wonders with Cotto, with a history of success across multiple sports and was a key cog in making GSP one of the greatest MMA fighters in history. MacMillan has proven to be an understated resource in a corner. Canelo's team will certainly need to up their game to match the Roach/Marvin/Gavin team. Advantage: Cotto

Final Tally: 4-2-2 in favor Cotto

Final thoughts/prediction: Cotto seems to have the advantages in this fight, however age and durability, where Canelo is favored for this particular fight is weighted more than the others, evening out the tallies. They both will be able to absorb eachothers fists, but who can withstand them longer? Roach should be able to recognize this and have Cotto fight a different type of fight. For Cotto to win this, he needs to dedicate the first several rounds confusing Canelo, with precise in and out punching, not leaving Canelo a chance to punch. In the mid-rounds, Cotto should switch gears and focus on the body to sap the remaining energy. The championship rounds, the young hungry lion will make his final attempt to battle back and Cotto should seek to survive and score a UD. Canelo, needs to perfect his timing and stop Cotto coming in and focus on the body to wear out the old war horse, which will allow him with his fresher legs to eek out a win. Prediction: Canelo, SD - 7-5, 7-5, 8-4

[SeekDaGreat]

Canelo is craftier, better counter puncher, stronger, better chin, naturally bigger.

Cotto moves better around the ring.

Cotto has to fight the perfect fight and not got caught with his feet planted to win. But he may have the experience to just pull this off...just maybe.

This isn't Geale or Rodiguez that he can just go in there and mix it up, he has to change his whole game plan.

[Santa_]

Great breakdown. I agree 8-4 Canelo. After Cotto loses he's going to switch trainers again, haha.

[icha]

This is a thread for boxing fans and those who are fans of BOTH fighters who actually watch boxing - we got two warriors agreeing to fight each other and this forum is littered with casuals and basement dwellers calling the fighters names and disrespecting them. I'm going to try and break down the fight as I see it; welcome lively and respectful dialogue. I am a fan of both. So whoever wins and loses will be a bittersweet moment. Anyways, lets go:

Age/Experience: I think it's prudent to talk about the the biggest factor in the fight. This has the makings of a classic passing of the torch type of fight, glossed over with a championship and heritage. Canelo is younger and fresher and hasn't really been in a true firefight.The Kirkland fight was about the biggest firefight he's been in and it lasted a few rounds and Kirkland was pretty wild. Cotto on the other hand has been in countless memorable and devastating fights. Torres, Margarito, Pacquiao, Judah and Mosley were fights that leather was flying. Some he won, some he lost. To some, this experience is a deciding factor and others it's a calling that the time is near. Cotto has a 10 year age disadvantage and has openly talked retirement and has long passed his prime; although he's fighting at a good level lately. Can Cotto's body withstand the youthful and hungry Canelo? Advantage: Canelo

Power: Canelo has had some cool KOs in his career. He flattened Kirkland in spectacular fashion, Baldomir and Cintron went down hard - however all these fighters were washed up. He clearly has respectable power, as shown in Trout and Lara fights. Lara particularly was less than eager to engage after a night of body shots. Canelo has proven power at 154-155. Cotto has KO'd foes in four separate divisions and has hurt, save for Margarito every fighter he has faced. At 160, he has put down men significantly larger than himself. He seems to have mastered punch placement to compliment his natural strength. Advantage: Cotto

Accuracy/timing: Both men possess a high level of accuracy and timing. Both has shown an uncanny skillset in disrupting rhythm of fighters and capitalizing on mistakes. Both are boxer/punchers, not particularly known for lightning speed however capable of catching those unaware. Canelo however has only fought one truly speedy individual, Mayweather who like against Cotto was able to time the timer. Cotto however has been in the ring against Malignaggi, Mosley [the relevant version] Judah, Pacquiao and has honed in on his timing. Cotto should have an easier time catching Canelo coming and going than Canelo will of Cotto. Advantage: Cotto

Footwork: Perhaps Canelo's glaring weakness; especially one who composes himself as a natural counterpuncher. Cotto is fleet footed when he wants to be, stationary as he seeks to be, side-to-side and more. Cotto's greatest arsenal in his fight against Canelo is his ability confuse him and force him to reset before every punch. Cotto was able to out-maneuver Mayweather at times and others. When fighters stay within reach of Canelo, he's at his most dangerous ala Kirkland. It'd be a fool's choice for Cotto to remain in the pocket for long durations against Canelo. At this stage of Canelo's career, we forget he's been fighting for 10 years as a pro - developing his footwork will probably never happen. This isn't "Southpaw." Advantage: Cotto

Chin/durability: Cotto probably has the most underrated chin in boxing today. He has been wobbled and hobbled, juked and jived and danced like no tomorrow; but only one man put him on his butt, Manny Pacquiao. Torres I suppose dropped him, but that was clearly a push. What fighter has not been hobbled? I am not sure why he gets discredited. He gets caught flush at the right spot, anyone can get hurt. Cotto has shown tremendous durability in his career. He fought Margarito in their first fight with a broken nose in the 2nd round until waved off in the 11th. He was in firefights with Chop Chop and Torres and fought through punishing shots. He lasted 12 rounds with Pacquiao IN HIS PRIME - when fighting him mattered. The fight was out of hand after the 6th round, but he continued. He took massive shots in most of his fights and may have wilted, but never withered. With all that being said, Canelo's body, doesn't have the wear and tear of the aforementioned fights. Detractors like to post funny gifs of "Lil Big Cotto" hurting him; but Canelo was truly a kid at the time and was just caught; even Chris Algieri can hurt a man every once in a while. Canelo has taken flush shots and eaten them well. His body has yet to endure punishing fights yet. The power punchers he's fought had nothing left to give, Mosley and Angulo to test his durability. Canelo's durability/chin is something of an unknown; however the benefit of the doubt must be given due to age and ring wear and tear. Lastly, post the first Margarito fight - Cotto's face/skin does not hold up, especially in the area surrounding the left eye.Advantage: Canelo

Stamina: The Achilles heel perhaps of both fighters. This is where Cotto's experience will help him the most. Both fighters are some of the best 8 round fighters fighting today - and they can conserve just enough to last 12. Both are their most dangerous early on; which leads to exciting finishes. Cotto was all over Mayweather the first eight rounds and heading to the 9th, a 4-4 score was not out of the question; however Cotto was clearly spent and Mayweather swept the last four. Canelo admit tingly was tired after 2 rounds with Kirkland and has a propensity to take rounds off to recover, in many of his fights. Those lull moments benefit the older fighter a great deal in this instance. Canelo's power seems to fade deep in to fights, like Cotto. Cotto has scored late fight KO's in his career, but those were in years long passed. Advantage: Even

Defense: Neither guy stands out or apart from eachother when it comes to defense. Both get hit flush and both have shown defensive skills - when they choose to. Under the tutelage of Steward and Pedro, Cotto was probably at his defensive best. Under Roach, Cotto seems to have mixed in some of that defensive experience with his offensive attack. Against Mayweather, he kept Floyd at his lowest connect percentage in Floyd's career. Canelo has clearly been working on defense and headmovement in fights against Lara and Trout, and those are developing; however I think the ceiling has been reached with his trainer. They have enough defensive skills to not let the fight devolve into a skill-less brawl, but get hit enough to make it super exciting: Advantage: Even

Corner: Sometimes the most overlooked aspect of any fight and something Cotto knows all too well, the detriment of not having top shelf corner. He was at a huge disadvantage against Pacquiao by having his water boy "work" his corner and even against Mayweather, Diaz for how great he is under an amateur system couldn't offer anything. Roach, love him or hate him knows fighters and studies them inside out and with Cotto has a perfect pairing of offensive mindset with offensive coach. Cotto benefits here because of the knowledge he brings from previous corner men. Canelo's corner has taken him far, but at this point I don't believe can take him farther. Against Mayweather, they had no answers to give the befuddled fighter, no change of course. They saw the trainwreck as it was happening and could not help Canelo in any way. Canelo could very well be at the point where Cotto was with his uncle - winning in spite of his corner. Another aspect of his corner is Cotto's strength and conditioning coach Gavin Macmillan has worked wonders with Cotto, with a history of success across multiple sports and was a key cog in making GSP one of the greatest MMA fighters in history. MacMillan has proven to be an understated resource in a corner. Canelo's team will certainly need to up their game to match the Roach/Marvin/Gavin team. Advantage: Cotto

Final Tally: 4-2-2 in favor Cotto

Final thoughts/prediction: Cotto seems to have the advantages in this fight, however age and durability, where Canelo is favored for this particular fight is weighted more than the others, evening out the tallies. They both will be able to absorb eachothers fists, but who can withstand them longer? Roach should be able to recognize this and have Cotto fight a different type of fight. For Cotto to win this, he needs to dedicate the first several rounds confusing Canelo, with precise in and out punching, not leaving Canelo a chance to punch. In the mid-rounds, Cotto should switch gears and focus on the body to sap the remaining energy. The championship rounds, the young hungry lion will make his final attempt to battle back and Cotto should seek to survive and score a UD. Canelo, needs to perfect his timing and stop Cotto coming in and focus on the body to wear out the old war horse, which will allow him with his fresher legs to eek out a win. Prediction: Canelo, SD - 7-5, 7-5, 8-4

props for your good an unbiased breakdown, i differ on a couple of points like power and accuracy , both of those points can go either way so is understandable that one can pick either fighter... the rest is pretty much on point...
about the outcome, like you said cottos face is his downfall and i doubt it will last for 12 rounds... canelo by stoppage ...

[.:: JSFD26 ::.]

Power I'd say even and chin/durability as well.

[JmH Reborn]

Canelo is craftier, better counter puncher, stronger, better chin, naturally bigger.

Cotto moves better around the ring.

Cotto has to fight the perfect fight and not got caught with his feet planted to win. But he may have the experience to just pull this off...just maybe.

This isn't Geale or Rodiguez that he can just go in there and mix it up, he has to change his whole game plan.

I can give the edge to counter punching to Canelo, because that's more his style and he is naturally bigger. But I can't say the same for Canelo being craftier or stronger. Both Mosley and Mayweather say that Cotto is stronger - so I'll go with them on that, and Cotto has shown many more dimensions to his game throughout his career.

I can't honestly think of a fight where Canelo needed to be crafty.

And yes, I agree that Cotto needs that perfect fight to win, but I don't think the bar is so high that he needs to be perfect all night to win. He can bank rounds and hurt Canelo. Geale was a big guy, I think he weighed in 175-180 for fight night. He looked massive. Regardless of the weight, punches coming from a guy that big is going to hurt - I suspect Cotto in the first round will try to take a test of that power which will then decide his course of action.

The worse thing for a fighter fighting Cotto is when he feels he's not threatened by their power. I like that Canelo is talking about working on speed, he needs to catch Cotto sleeping at the wheel

[Eff Pandas]

Great breakdown. I agree 8-4 Canelo. After Cotto loses he's going to switch trainers again, haha.

Agree, great breakdown. Don't think I disagreed with any assessment. I think Canelo is winning 8-4 to 7-5 on the cards. It'll be close. Should be some good strategy going on on this night.

[Spirit]

should be a close fight if cotto can't land his body punches...I favor canelo in a close fight, he'll probably chase cotto more than cotto will him plus he'll probably have a bright future ahead of him compared to cotto who should have no more than a few years left in the sport

[Zaryu]

Good stuff, I give Cotto a slight edge on stamina now that he is with Roach and Gavin.

Although I agree Cotto is probably the stronger puncher, I think Canelo will take Cotto's punches better than what Cotto will take his, which will end up making Canelo look like the stronger puncher.

This is an awesome fight, I'll be rooting for Cotto, but I think Canelo has the edge here.