Prime Foreman vs Prime Frazier

[Elroy1]

Yes you're right. Wlad only lost to the atg punchers. all those power punchers like Brewster, sanders, and Purrity. How much of Frazier and Foreman have you seen?

ATG? That's just a label for oldies!

A fighter either hits hard or he doesn't.

Only 1 of those fighters beat Wlad by way of hard punching (Sanders).

The gas related stoppage to Puritty (and Brewster too which wasn't even really legit anyway) was synonymous to Foremans own gas related stoppage to Ali! But atleast Wlad's opponents COULD punch, unlike Ali!

So let's look at Sanders.

He is slightly longer than Foreman
Heavier than Foreman
Hits very hard. Hard enough to spark the big fellas out.
He is much more skilled than George.
And is several leagues faster than George.

So much for your ATG theory.

I have reviewed all the relevant fights of Foreman and Frazier over the years.

Foreman displayed no appreciable skills, was an arm and push puncher. He was powerful (most powerful of all time is simply fog talk). Nearly all of his opponents were nothing but helpless victims, undersized, overmatched CW's. All I see is a big bully picking on smaller weaker boxers.

Frazier is terrible. The times he met what was THEN called B grade opposition, like Bonavena for example, he was up against it. If not for Ali, he would not be famous at all!

Labelling Frazier a "puncher" is over the top laughable. 45% KO ratio against 200+ opposition, which pretty much all of those were only JUST over 200lbs, not like the 235lb average opponents of WK.

Joe Frazier was a HW featherfist!

In my opinion, he could not punch through the surface tension of water!

[Elroy1]

Then why did Tyson duck Foreman? D'amato even told him he couldn't beat Foreman.

Tyson... Ducking... Foreman...

I don't think so buddy.

Yes, I am aware of D'Amato's famous words.

And I'm also aware of Tyson's own statement "I want no part of that animal".

But really, Tyson knew he could easily beat Foreman.
D'Amato knew Tyson could easily beat Foreman
FOREMAN knew Tyson could easily beat him.

Don't confuse tributary words with reality.

Foreman's slow and plodding shots would not have had one single Iota of hope of landing on Tyson with such astounding reflexes and speed that he displayed. And he could not have hoped to evade the vicious shots launched by Tyson up close.

Again, we are not talking about Frazier. Tyson combines features of both Geroge AND Frazier, except is faster and more skilled than either ever was!

[Bushidō]

Foreman is far too slow and lumbersome to have ever beaten Tyson.

Seriously!

We are not talking about chinny Moorer here,

We are not talking about diminutive punch bags like Frazier or Roman.

We are talking about Mike ****ing Tyson!

Cus D'mato showed Tyson videos of Foreman and basically told him he's the type of fighter you should avoid. I think that fear was in Tyson's mind so even if they fought when Foreman was out of his prime Tyson would have lost even before getting in the ring.

[Elroy1]

Cus D'mato showed Tyson videos of Foreman and basically told him he's the type of fighter you should avoid. I think that fear was in Tyson's mind so even if they fought when Foreman was out of his prime Tyson would have lost even before getting in the ring.

Show me a single example where Tyson was "fearful"?

This Mike Tyson, even at the end of his career, fought LEnnox friggin Lewis! Whom Foreman openly ducked.

Foreman cherry picked all his 90's opposition.

Before Foreman got the drop on Moorer, he was getting his brains punched out badly. By MOORER!

And when Foreman faced someone comparable to Tyson in Morrison, he got given a boxing lesson. And Morrison wasn't as good or tough as Tyson!

Nah, I don't think I'll but into that story.

Romantic fog talk!

There is not a single indication in any of Foreman's 80 odd fights that he could have ever beaten Mike Tyson.

[Tom Cruise]

Foreman beats any version of Frazier from what ive seen.

How are you gonna beat a guy like Foreman by trying to brawl him? Hes too strong, too heavy handed.

[abdelfadeel]

ATG? That's just a label for oldies!

A fighter either hits hard or he doesn't.

Only 1 of those fighters beat Wlad by way of hard punching (Sanders).

The gas related stoppage to Puritty (and Brewster too which wasn't even really legit anyway) was synonymous to Foremans own gas related stoppage to Ali! But at least Wlad's opponents COULD punch, unlike Ali!

So let's look at Sanders.

He is slightly longer than Foreman
Heavier than Foreman
Hits very hard. Hard enough to spark the big fellas out.
He is much more skilled than George.
And is several leagues faster than George.

So much for your ATG theory.

I have reviewed all the relevant fights of Foreman and Frazier over the years.

Foreman displayed no appreciable skills, was an arm and push puncher. He was powerful (most powerful of all time is simply fog talk). Nearly all of his opponents were nothing but helpless victims, undersized, overmatched CW's. All I see is a big bully picking on smaller weaker boxers.

Frazier is terrible. The times he met what was THEN called B grade opposition, like Bonavena for example, he was up against it. If not for Ali, he would not be famous at all!

Labelling Frazier a "puncher" is over the top laughable. 45% KO ratio against 200+ opposition, which pretty much all of those were only JUST over 200lbs, not like the 235lb average opponents of WK.

Joe Frazier was a HW featherfist!

In my opinion, he could not punch through the surface tension of water!

He's not longer than Foreman, Foreman has an 82 inch reach, Sanders has a 77 inch reach. It's funny because you list Sanders's advantages and not Foreman's. You also pointed out Sander's punching power but didn't point out Foreman's who hit much harder. Are you seriously implying Wlad has a better chin than Foreman? No ***** Foreman was only stopped once.
Foreman only stopped cruserweights? That's just laughable. Foreman's not a bully picking on weaker boxers. Is Lyle weak? No I didn't think so. How is that Frazier's fault his oppenents weren't heavy? He did what he could with them. Frazier was not A HW featherfist. Frazier dropped Ali. Only 2 other men can claim this. Frazier also stopped Chuvalo. Only 1 other man can claim this. I don't care what you say Frazier was a much better ATG than Grabimir. Wlad isn't even an Atg. Just shut the **** up biased clown.

[abdelfadeel]

Tyson... Ducking... Foreman...

I don't think so buddy.

Yes, I am aware of D'Amato's famous words.

And I'm also aware of Tyson's own statement "I want no part of that animal".

But really, Tyson knew he could easily beat Foreman.
D'Amato knew Tyson could easily beat Foreman
FOREMAN knew Tyson could easily beat him.

Don't confuse tributary words with reality.

Foreman's slow and plodding shots would not have had one single Iota of hope of landing on Tyson with such astounding reflexes and speed that he displayed. And he could not have hoped to evade the vicious shots launched by Tyson up close.

Again, we are not talking about Frazier. Tyson combines features of both Geroge AND Frazier, except is faster and more skilled than either ever was!

Can you prove any of these facts? That doesn't explain why Tyson's camp wasn't returning any of Foreman's calls.

[abdelfadeel]

Show me a single example where Tyson was "fearful"?

This Mike Tyson, even at the end of his career, fought LEnnox friggin Lewis! Whom Foreman openly ducked.

Foreman cherry picked all his 90's opposition.

Before Foreman got the drop on Moorer, he was getting his brains punched out badly. By MOORER!

And when Foreman faced someone comparable to Tyson in Morrison, he got given a boxing lesson. And Morrison wasn't as good or tough as Tyson!

Nah, I don't think I'll but into that story.

Romantic fog talk!

There is not a single indication in any of Foreman's 80 odd fights that he could have ever beaten Mike Tyson.

It is absolutely a fact that Mike Tyson was afraid to fight 41-year-old George Foreman--the same Foreman who Evander Holyfield would fight and beat in April of 1991. I have not a doubt that had Foreman and Tyson fought anytime between 1990 and 1997 that Foreman would have knocked Tyson out inside of three rounds. Tyson just has nothing to beat Foreman with; his edge in hand speed would have been a non-factor. He can't beat him by backing away, and he would have gotten his head handed to him if he brought the fight to Foreman. In addition, Foreman was bigger, stronger, tougher and hit harder. Not to mention the fact that Foreman had a better chin and no fear or doubt, unlike Tyson, who was full of fear and self-doubt.. Sorry if you can't handle it.

[Elroy1]

He's not longer than Foreman, Foreman has an 82 inch reach, Sanders has a 77 inch reach. It's funny because you list Sanders's advantages and not Foreman's. You also pointed out Sander's punching power but didn't point out Foreman's who hit much harder. Are you seriously implying Wlad has a better chin than Foreman? No ***** Foreman was only stopped once.
Foreman only stopped cruserweights? That's just laughable. Foreman's not a bully picking on weaker boxers. Is Lyle weak? No I didn't think so. How is that Frazier's fault his oppenents weren't heavy? He did what he could with them. Frazier was not A HW featherfist. Frazier dropped Ali. Only 2 other men can claim this. Frazier also stopped Chuvalo. Only 1 other man can claim this. I don't care what you say Frazier was a much better ATG than Grabimir. Wlad isn't even an Atg. Just shut the **** up biased clown.

No I don't think Wladimir has a better chin than Foreman.

But I am hesitant to buy that Foreman was a substantially harder puncher than Sanders. I think Foreman's shots were more driving than Sander's, screwing with balance more. But I also think Sander's had more snap and pop than Foreman's.

What exactly is Foreman's power based on? Let's EXCLUDE the 90's Foreman because there he weighed well in excess of 260lbs! And was heavily strength trained!

Focussing solely on 70's Foreman, whom did he KO? Besides Frazier and Norton, he never KOed ANYBODY relevant! In fact he KDed Frazier 6 times who STILL finished on his feet. I KNOW that Corrie would have sparked him out cold in the opening seconds of round 1. He would not be getting up!

Then there was Lyle vs Foreman. Foreman couldn't properly handle guys his own size, like Corrie. If Lyle could KD Foreman, so could Corrie.

The question who hit harder out of Corrie vs Foreman, is not obvious! Different types of power, that is obvious! Corries is the more dangerous for real HW's! Foreman's power in the 70's is based MAINLY on KOing CW's and bums.

[abdelfadeel]

No I don't think Wladimir has a better chin than Foreman.

But I am hesitant to buy that Foreman was a substantially harder puncher than Sanders. I think Foreman's shots were more driving than Sander's, screwing with balance more. But I also think Sander's had more snap and pop than Foreman's.

What exactly is Foreman's power based on? Let's EXCLUDE the 90's Foreman because there he weighed well in excess of 260lbs! And was heavily strength trained!

Focussing solely on 70's Foreman, whom did he KO? Besides Frazier and Norton, he never KOed ANYBODY relevant! In fact he KDed Frazier 6 times who STILL finished on his feet. I KNOW that Corrie would have sparked him out cold in the opening seconds of round 1. He would not be getting up!

Then there was Lyle vs Foreman. Foreman couldn't properly handle guys his own size, like Corrie. If Lyle could KD Foreman, so could Corrie.

The question who hit harder out of Corrie vs Foreman, is not obvious! Different types of power, that is obvious! Corries is the more dangerous for real HW's! Foreman's power in the 70's is based MAINLY on KOing CW's and bums.

Sanders wasn't in Foreman's time zone. Sorry if you can't take it. Foreman could handle people his own size like Chuvalo. Foreman didn't knock out anyone relavent? You think Sanders would ko Frazier? Have you ever watched boxing? Foreman knocked out much better people than Sanders. Even if you can't accept it, it's the truth. I don't think you know about boxing. you only believe what you wanna believe.