Prime Foreman vs Prime Frazier

[abdelfadeel]

Dude, even without checking I KNOW that Tyson's measurements were larger than Liston's. You can't be more ripped and shorter and of heftier weight combined without having larger muscles in general. And it's clear to see for everybody.

Young Foreman had big arms, but other than that he was relatively SKINNY you idiot! He was much taller than Mike is all! Foreman WAS a MUCH bigger boxer than Mike over whole career, but that's because in the 90's he was fattened up AND bodybuilt.

There are essentially 2 versions of Foreman...

The tall, heavy for the day but small nowadays Foreman of the 70's who was faster, more aggressive, but with a somewhat mediocre chin and who could barely even box..

And the vastly experienced, measured and smarter boxer of the 90's who was even stronger and immensely heftier and with an iron chin, but who'se speed and workrate were obviously weathered with age.

If you could combine the features of both Foreman's together, then sure, Tyson would be beat. Unfortunately such a Foreman never actually existed. Only in the minds of OTNB's.

As for who had a tougher childhood? I would say Tyson had a pretty rough childhood personally. Not that that has ANYTHING to do with boxing performance.

If you want to know what would happen to Liston should he have fought Tyson? Watch Tyson vs Scaff!

Liston never once won any fight against what we would today regard as a decent opponent.

His opponents consisted, without exception of cruisers and bums and guys coming off of loss streaks and featherfists and always a combination of these qualities too!

The only time he met what today would consider a good quality cruiser sized HW... He threw in the towel and took a dive!

He failed to KO and then took a dive against chinny little featherfist Clay

Get out of here with your moronic comparisons!

What's next? Jockeys are bigger and stronger than WWE Wrestlers?

Please list Tyson's measurements compared to Liston's. You'll find Liston's measurements were higher. If you've actually watched any of Tyson's interviews (which I doubt you have) Tyson even said the one man he'd be afraid of facing would be Liston.
Foreman's muscles were not stronger with age. Williams, Folley, and alot of others would be considered good oppenents today. More biased garbage. Predictably from you.
If you wanna see Tyson against Foreman and Liston see Foreman-Frazier 1 and Liston-Patterson 1

[Elroy1]

Please list Tyson's measurements compared to Liston's. You'll find Liston's measurements were higher. If you've actually watched any of Tyson's interviews (which I doubt you have) Tyson even said the one man he'd be afraid of facing would be Liston.
Foreman's muscles were not stronger with age. Williams, Folley, and alot of others would be considered good oppenents today. More biased garbage. Predictably from you.
If you wanna see Tyson against Foreman and Liston see Foreman-Frazier 1 and Liston-Patterson 1

Unbelievable, you compare Tyson's performance against these 2 to that which occurred between featherfist, chinny, half-blind Frazier who could barely box and Patterson, possibly the weakest champ in history. Incredible! I suppose the Scaff comparison was a bit much too so I deserved that one

So your saying that despite Foremans complete set of muscles being 2ce the size and the fact he pulled frigging cars and lifted weights in the 90's and beefed up by about 50lbs, that his muscles were not stronger? Not buying that!

Williams, Folley etc would never be professional boxers today, perhaps in the CW division but as they were they'd be smashed there too.

Again, I don't care what Tyson SAYS in a homage sense about either Liston or Foreman, I only believe in facts. I've also heard him declare he thinks he could have beaten any boxer and he may well could have!

I can't see Liston being anything but a first round KO for Mike, for no other reason that he was too slow and unco to land any punches on Mike or properly defend himself.

[abdelfadeel]

Unbelievable, you compare Tyson's performance against these 2 to that which occurred between featherfist, chinny, half-blind Frazier who could barely box and Patterson, possibly the weakest champ in history. Incredible! I suppose the Scaff comparison was a bit much too so I deserved that one

So your saying that despite Foremans complete set of muscles being 2ce the size and the fact he pulled frigging cars and lifted weights in the 90's and beefed up by about 50lbs, that his muscles were not stronger? Not buying that!

Williams, Folley etc would never be professional boxers today, perhaps in the CW division but as they were they'd be smashed there too.

Again, I don't care what Tyson SAYS in a homage sense about either Liston or Foreman, I only believe in facts. I've also heard him declare he thinks he could have beaten any boxer and he may well could have!

I can't see Liston being anything but a first round KO for Mike, for no other reason that he was too slow and unco to land any punches on Mike or properly defend himself.

I guarantee you Williams, and Folley would be up there with the klitchskos. Old Foreman was heavier cause he was fatter. If you think old Foreman had more power than young Foreman, I simply don't know where to begin. As for "Again, I don't care what Tyson SAYS in a homage sense about either Liston or Foreman, I only believe in facts." You are lying when you say you believe in facts because if you did you'd see Liston has the advantage over Tyson. Fight Advantages:
Hand Speed- Tyson, Boxing Ability- Liston, KO Power-Liston, Size-Liston, Defense-Tyson, Endurance-Liston, Adaptability-Liston, Foot Speed-Tyson, Strength-Liston, Jab-Liston, Cuts-No Advantage, Reach-Liston(84”) and Tyson(71”), Body Attack-Tyson:
Total: 8-4-1 for Liston
Yet Liston is a first round victim of Tyson, Sorry buddy it's the other way around. (Though not in the first round) It's a shame though because I would've wanted Tyson to win like you did but unlike you, I go on facts. Not personal bias.

[abdelfadeel]

Unbelievable, you compare Tyson's performance against these 2 to that which occurred between featherfist, chinny, half-blind Frazier who could barely box and Patterson, possibly the weakest champ in history. Incredible! I suppose the Scaff comparison was a bit much too so I deserved that one

So your saying that despite Foremans complete set of muscles being 2ce the size and the fact he pulled frigging cars and lifted weights in the 90's and beefed up by about 50lbs, that his muscles were not stronger? Not buying that!

Williams, Folley etc would never be professional boxers today, perhaps in the CW division but as they were they'd be smashed there too.

Again, I don't care what Tyson SAYS in a homage sense about either Liston or Foreman, I only believe in facts. I've also heard him declare he thinks he could have beaten any boxer and he may well could have!

I can't see Liston being anything but a first round KO for Mike, for no other reason that he was too slow and unco to land any punches on Mike or properly defend himself.

Frazier wasn't feather fisted or chinny. Oh yeah and by the way, I am still waiting for your proof Tyson's measurements were bigger than Liston's.

[Elroy1]

I guarantee you Williams, and Folley would be up there with the klitchskos. Old Foreman was heavier cause he was fatter. If you think old Foreman had more power than young Foreman, I simply don't know where to begin. As for "Again, I don't care what Tyson SAYS in a homage sense about either Liston or Foreman, I only believe in facts." You are lying when you say you believe in facts because if you did you'd see Liston has the advantage over Tyson. Fight Advantages:
Hand Speed- Tyson, Boxing Ability- Liston, KO Power-Liston, Size-Liston, Defense-Tyson, Endurance-Liston, Adaptability-Liston, Foot Speed-Tyson, Strength-Liston, Jab-Liston, Cuts-No Advantage, Reach-Liston(84”) and Tyson(71”), Body Attack-Tyson:
Total: 8-4-1 for Liston
Yet Liston is a first round victim of Tyson, Sorry buddy it's the other way around. (Though not in the first round) It's a shame though because I would've wanted Tyson to win like you did but unlike you, I go on facts. Not personal bias.

I have it..

Handspeed: Tyson (one of the fastest vs one of the slowest HW's all time)
Boxing ability: Tyson (fantastic skills, Liston could barely throw a straight punch)
KO Power- Tyson (Tyson has among the fastest KO speeds of a far heftier and far higher class of opposition than Liston. Liston never KOed a decent opponent.
Size: Liston is rangier, Tyson is heftier
Defense: Tyson
Jab: Liston
Endurance: Tyson (Tyson was an elite trained athlete, Liston was not)
Adaptability: Unsure, I'll just give it to Liston
Footspeed: Tyson
Strength: Tyson (Come on man, LOOK at them!)
Body attack: Tyson

For me it's a white wash.

For me there is no boxer prior to Tyson who stands any chance against him. Except for an extremely lucky Foreman!

[abdelfadeel]

I have it..

Handspeed: Tyson (one of the fastest vs one of the slowest HW's all time)
Boxing ability: Tyson (fantastic skills, Liston could barely throw a straight punch)
KO Power- Tyson (Tyson has among the fastest KO speeds of a far heftier and far higher class of opposition than Liston. Liston never KOed a decent opponent.
Size: Liston is rangier, Tyson is heftier
Defense: Tyson
Jab: Liston
Endurance: Tyson (Tyson was an elite trained athlete, Liston was not)
Adaptability: Unsure, I'll just give it to Liston
Footspeed: Tyson
Strength: Tyson (Come on man, LOOK at them!)
Body attack: Tyson

For me it's a white wash.

For me there is no boxer prior to Tyson who stands any chance against him. Except for an extremely lucky Foreman!

you're letting your bias get in the way. Liston is bigger as shown in the tale of the tape. still waiting for your evidence btw that tyson's measurements were bigger than Liston's. Tyson more endurance than Liston? Tyson only had 2 ko's after the 6th round. Liston went the distance several times. Tyson hasn't. Liston has the advantage in strength. His muscles were bigger. Something you have repeatedly denied.
ou mention Tyson and immediately hundreds of little Tyson fanatics come rushing out waving their excuses around. "It's Don King's fault, it's Desiree Washington's fault, it's his wife's fault, it's Buster's fault, it's your fault, it's god's fault for taking cus" IT'S MIKE'S FAULT GET OVER IT.

Liston was one of over 20 siblings and ran away from home when he was a kid and you're telling me Tyson had a tough upbringing?? What, someone killed one of his pigeons? Liston was hounded by police and under threats from the mob all his life.

Tyson was 23 when he was soundly whipped by THE GREAT Buster Douglas. Who went on to beat...oh yeah, Douglas was a journeyman.

Liston was an old man in comparison and could've gone unbeaten for a long time if he hadn't run into a prime Muhammad Ali.

So for a start, when making a fantasy Tyson matchup, you must first ignore all the fanboys who's memory doesn't go back further than 1985. For instance, yourself.

The matchup. Liston was one of history's very meanest fighters, and when somebody stood up to Tyson he didn't react well, Tyson would be quivering in his boots under the dark glare of Liston.

You say Sonny had questionable stamina, but he went the distance several times, including dropping a decision when he broke his jaw early in a fight early in his career. Liston's a hard man to judge because he was at his prime before he took the title from Patterson. He was ducked for so long he had aged by the time he was champ. Now we know Liston had the strongest jab in heavyweight boxing, this along with his all around strength and toughness is enough for him to take Tyson into the mid to late rounds. We all know that's a key in beating Tyson as shown by Douglas..
Sonny Liston was everything Tyson wishes he was.Liston was tough and a true bad man without having to say so.Sonny could box and go the distance without much of a problem.Liston had a great chin and probably the best jab in heavyweight history.His power was equaled by very few and maybe only Foreman could match him there.

Sonny Liston would not have a hard time with Tyson.Liston would have used the jab to pick off the smaller Tyson and set him up for big rights and uppercuts.Tyson's style was exactly like Floyd Patterson's(Cus trained him also) but with much more power.Sonny can take anything Tyson dishes out,and that would discourage Mike big time. Cleveland Williams unloaded on Sonny in the first round of their first fight,bloodying his nose and breaking it. Williams had big time power like Tyson and probably the same amount of speed.Williams was also bigger than Tyson.Liston simply shook off the blows and figuered Williams out,eventually knocking him out in 3 rounds.Sonny took Williams down in the 2 round in their rematch.Liston would pound the smaller Tyson around the ring and do what nobody ever did with a prime Tyson and that's dominate him.Sonny takes this in no more than 5 but probably ends this much earlier by 3rd round knockout. And if Cus was alive Tyson would still get beaten. and if he hadn't married Robin Givens Tyson would still get beaten. Sorry if you can't take it.

[Ropeee]

you're letting your bias get in the way. Liston is bigger as shown in the tale of the tape. still waiting for your evidence btw that tyson's measurements were bigger than Liston's. Tyson more endurance than Liston? Tyson only had 2 ko's after the 6th round. Liston went the distance several times. Tyson hasn't. Liston has the advantage in strength. His muscles were bigger. Something you have repeatedly denied.
ou mention Tyson and immediately hundreds of little Tyson fanatics come rushing out waving their excuses around. "It's Don King's fault, it's Desiree Washington's fault, it's his wife's fault, it's Buster's fault, it's your fault, it's god's fault for taking cus" IT'S MIKE'S FAULT GET OVER IT.

Liston was one of over 20 siblings and ran away from home when he was a kid and you're telling me Tyson had a tough upbringing?? What, someone killed one of his pigeons? Liston was hounded by police and under threats from the mob all his life.

Tyson was 23 when he was soundly whipped by THE GREAT Buster Douglas. Who went on to beat...oh yeah, Douglas was a journeyman.

Liston was an old man in comparison and could've gone unbeaten for a long time if he hadn't run into a prime Muhammad Ali.

So for a start, when making a fantasy Tyson matchup, you must first ignore all the fanboys who's memory doesn't go back further than 1985. For instance, yourself.

The matchup. Liston was one of history's very meanest fighters, and when somebody stood up to Tyson he didn't react well, Tyson would be quivering in his boots under the dark glare of Liston.

You say Sonny had questionable stamina, but he went the distance several times, including dropping a decision when he broke his jaw early in a fight early in his career. Liston's a hard man to judge because he was at his prime before he took the title from Patterson. He was ducked for so long he had aged by the time he was champ. Now we know Liston had the strongest jab in heavyweight boxing, this along with his all around strength and toughness is enough for him to take Tyson into the mid to late rounds. We all know that's a key in beating Tyson as shown by Douglas..
Sonny Liston was everything Tyson wishes he was.Liston was tough and a true bad man without having to say so.Sonny could box and go the distance without much of a problem.Liston had a great chin and probably the best jab in heavyweight history.His power was equaled by very few and maybe only Foreman could match him there.

Sonny Liston would not have a hard time with Tyson.Liston would have used the jab to pick off the smaller Tyson and set him up for big rights and uppercuts.Tyson's style was exactly like Floyd Patterson's(Cus trained him also) but with much more power.Sonny can take anything Tyson dishes out,and that would discourage Mike big time. Cleveland Williams unloaded on Sonny in the first round of their first fight,bloodying his nose and breaking it. Williams had big time power like Tyson and probably the same amount of speed.Williams was also bigger than Tyson.Liston simply shook off the blows and figuered Williams out,eventually knocking him out in 3 rounds.Sonny took Williams down in the 2 round in their rematch.Liston would pound the smaller Tyson around the ring and do what nobody ever did with a prime Tyson and that's dominate him.Sonny takes this in no more than 5 but probably ends this much earlier by 3rd round knockout. And if Cus was alive Tyson would still get beaten. and if he hadn't married Robin Givens Tyson would still get beaten. Sorry if you can't take it.

If liston get koed in 1 round with 1 punch by average puncher tyson would kill him

[Dallas' 4 Eva]

Ok, first of all stylistically Tyson shares a lot of similarities with Frazier, just Frazier doesn't have the power of Tyson. Foreman is a bad matchup for Tyson though I think Tyson would fare better against Foreman than Frazier did.

Second of all, anyone who thinks Wladimir Klitschko could beat George Foreman I have some beachfront property in Kansas to sell you. Wladimir is TAILOR MADE for Foreman. Wlad is flat footed and not mobile at all, not to mention everytime he lost he got stopped. Foreman stops Wlad within 5 rounds bro, and i'm being generous here. HORRIBLE matchup for Wlad. Some heavyweights who I think give Foreman lots of trouble would be guys like Chris Byrd or Usyk, guys who are mobile and can move and can make you fight at their pace and make you miss. Wlad was too stiff he is a sitting target for Foreman, he would get annihilated.