Official Tyson Fury vs Wladimir Klitschko Post Fight Discussion Thread

[Elroy1]

What does it say about Klitschko when his best victory was obtained by constant use of cheat and foul tactics and would have lost by DQ had a neutral ref been in there??

It says that he has fought some of the most stubborn and toughest opponents ever to lace up the gloves, that forced the fight into a very scrappy kind of war with each side scratching for victory.

Such is the case when one fighter simply doesn't want to concede when he is otherwise beaten.

[Burt Saxby]

It says that he has fought some of the most stubborn and toughest opponents ever to lace up the gloves, that forced the fight into a very scrappy kind of war with each side scratching for victory.

Such is the case when one fighter simply doesn't want to concede when he is otherwise beaten.

It says that when a guy with semi decent skills was put in front of him , he failed completely at boxing and had to use his massive size advantage to cheat , foul ,grapple and maul his way to victory.

Its says that his true boxing level is that of the Leapais and Pianetas of the world because those are the only type of guys he only ever looks good against.

[billeau2]

Povetkin has improved..however watching the first fight clearly again wlads lack of aggression cost him an early k.o...had that guy out by mid rounds. The more it went the uglier it got...Not entirely Wlads fault rewatch and you will see Povetkin like Jennings just bombarding forward with nothing else really but hoping not to get hiit in a clinch themselves.

Thats funny! Guys, knowing the Vlad propencity to clinch, run in and get the response...Fury did this for sure. I will rewatch,what you say about Povatkin is exactly the problem he has...its like martial arts, you need angles for entry, most South Asian systems are based almost exclusively on this concept! Olympic style fighting particularly does nothing to promote this...prolly because the aim in such a short fight is to get to a point where one can throw more punches as soon as possible.

The problem is guys like Povatkin are not having anyone show them the subleties...Fedor had subtlety! its in Russian Judo (Sambo). Povatkin could be a stronger fighter if he had that understanding, Jennings as well.

[billeau2]

For once can you answer a question for me there Bill, since your an intelligent nut bag or "nutbag elite" as I like to call..

You skirted 2 points in the Juggernaut post that I felt were the most important actually..

The LEnnox Lewis excuse. How is that MORE excusable than Wladimir's so called excuse which is in fact an inevitability eventually? And certainly we seen it coming in his last outing with Jennings anyhow, the only difference of opinion was whether Fury could be the one to do it or not??

Which leads to the debate over the reason over Wlad's dreadful performance.

Do you really subscribe to the notion that Tyson Fury's boxing was responsible for nullifying Wlad to the level of output and accuracy that was achieved?

I can't believe YOU personally, not including any other nut bags, can post there unashamedly that it was not in very large part Wladimir self-defeating or being somewhat spent or a bit of both.

I TOTALLY respect that Fury now is a very viable reality to beat Wladimir again like he already has. But that would more indicate a shot Wladimir.

Bottom line is, most people instinctively KNOW that Wladimir is still the favourite in the rematch. He is a proven warrior who has risen like a phoenix from the ashes like no other boxer has previously.

I didn't squirt anything. my opinion about the Lewis fight is well known, I disagree. I think Lewis did something incredibly out if character and ****** when he decided to take that fight. He was preparing for a "gimme." against a guy who was nil a threat. Lewis has shown over the years to respect when a fighter is dangerous. His usual way is to accept the challenge (even when a silly alphabet demands a mandatory) and prepare carefully. The times he got beat, he looked very confused in the ring, like he didn't prepare...but thats on him.

Fact is a worse case Lewis was able to beat Vitalie, thats my opinion. we will never know...thats known as a fact. Would Vlad have prevailed? fact hanging off, getting hit and affected more and more by the onslaught? Maybe. Was Lewis bluffing and ready to go? Lewis isn't telling, if you hold that opinion so be it. I don't.

With Juggy I have seen him argue his points nicely and I respect that. I also don't disagree as much as one might assume...there are certain methods and skills that a guy like Ruddok had, that guys like Golata had, etc. I try in my own behavoir to show respect and courtesy when people argue a point intelligently...I don't always have to have the last word, or be right. That might be what suprises you.

I most certainly do subsribe to the notion that Fury nulified Vlad...its in the tape, you can see Fury feinting, changing positions as Vlad is setting. Its a trick used in the KoRyu systems going back more than 500 years sometimes...At the last instant when the swordsman feels the killing force and starts to feel sick in his stomach, as the blade starts its descent, the swordsman simply thinks "I am already dead" and moves off line ever so subtlety. Its a skill the oldtimers you disparage used considerably, which is why in the original boxing forms, guys were sword length to each other and not squared up...

When you see a guy like Corbett so weak in the range where he is at punch length...wath Tunney fight Dempsey. You will see Corbett's strengths in Tunney and you will see how well he throws dempsey's timing off in that fight....thats the skill that Furrey was working with Elroy and its in the tape if you know what to look for.

You assume a notion that Vlad is shot rather than look at what happened in the fight look at these things and then...I don't have to WIN anything from you, but pay attention to these details if you would:

1) Fury's distance from Vlad. Notice two things, he is often on his back leg (virtually everyone else with exception of maybe thompson was squared up) and moving in a direction blind side away from Vlad's jab.

2) Fury's movement when Vlad gets ready to jab. As Vlad is setting Fury does one of three things: a) he feints b) he moves c) he comes in and puts his head on Vlad's chest. These movements make it frustrating to pull the trigger for Vlad. Hes not shot, hes been nullified because he has not faced guys who know how to use these skills.

You wull see much of what Fury does if you watch the old timers. This is why guys didn't set to punch so much...it telegraphs!

3) How Fury uses his low hand lead. Fury, knowing that Vlad is a flincher, threatens Vlad with this low hand lead, it causes Vlad to hesitate coming in because he does not like to be hit. Again its not being shot, he does not want to get countered with that hand.

Everybody said before the fight "Fury will get Koed cause he drops that hand" well..No. fury is at a distance where he can react to Vlad, Vlad has to step in just a bit to connect, this gives Fury time to respond to the punch and lets say, vlad does not go for the feint, quickly closes distance...fury cannot get his head into Vlad's chest, Fury can then use that punch to counter, which he did a couple of times...beautifully I may add...to give vlad the message that even if Vlad gets a punch off, he will pay.

Just forget your opinions for a few minutes and LOOK at what I have given you, taken ten minutes out of my life to do so, LOOK at the fight and you will see these processes playing out.

Was Vlad shot? WHO KNOWS? Thats an opinion. Did Fury do the things mentioned above? YES!!

[Fury4daWIN]

I didn't squirt anything. my opinion about the Lewis fight is well known, I disagree. I think Lewis did something incredibly out if character and ****** when he decided to take that fight. He was preparing for a "gimme." against a guy who was nil a threat. Lewis has shown over the years to respect when a fighter is dangerous. His usual way is to accept the challenge (even when a silly alphabet demands a mandatory) and prepare carefully. The times he got beat, he looked very confused in the ring, like he didn't prepare...but thats on him.

Fact is a worse case Lewis was able to beat Vitalie, thats my opinion. we will never know...thats known as a fact. Would Vlad have prevailed? fact hanging off, getting hit and affected more and more by the onslaught? Maybe. Was Lewis bluffing and ready to go? Lewis isn't telling, if you hold that opinion so be it. I don't.

With Juggy I have seen him argue his points nicely and I respect that. I also don't disagree as much as one might assume...there are certain methods and skills that a guy like Ruddok had, that guys like Golata had, etc. I try in my own behavoir to show respect and courtesy when people argue a point intelligently...I don't always have to have the last word, or be right. That might be what suprises you.

I most certainly do subsribe to the notion that Fury nulified Vlad...its in the tape, you can see Fury feinting, changing positions as Vlad is setting. Its a trick used in the KoRyu systems going back more than 500 years sometimes...At the last instant when the swordsman feels the killing force and starts to feel sick in his stomach, as the blade starts its descent, the swordsman simply thinks "I am already dead" and moves off line ever so subtlety. Its a skill the oldtimers you disparage used considerably, which is why in the original boxing forms, guys were sword length to each other and not squared up...

When you see a guy like Corbett so weak in the range where he is at punch length...wath Tunney fight Dempsey. You will see Corbett's strengths in Tunney and you will see how well he throws dempsey's timing off in that fight....thats the skill that Furrey was working with Elroy and its in the tape if you know what to look for.

You assume a notion that Vlad is shot rather than look at what happened in the fight look at these things and then...I don't have to WIN anything from you, but pay attention to these details if you would:

1) Fury's distance from Vlad. Notice two things, he is often on his back leg (virtually everyone else with exception of maybe thompson was squared up) and moving in a direction blind side away from Vlad's jab.

2) Fury's movement when Vlad gets ready to jab. As Vlad is setting Fury does one of three things: a) he feints b) he moves c) he comes in and puts his head on Vlad's chest. These movements make it frustrating to pull the trigger for Vlad. Hes not shot, hes been nullified because he has not faced guys who know how to use these skills.

You wull see much of what Fury does if you watch the old timers. This is why guys didn't set to punch so much...it telegraphs!

3) How Fury uses his low hand lead. Fury, knowing that Vlad is a flincher, threatens Vlad with this low hand lead, it causes Vlad to hesitate coming in because he does not like to be hit. Again its not being shot, he does not want to get countered with that hand.

Everybody said before the fight "Fury will get Koed cause he drops that hand" well..No. fury is at a distance where he can react to Vlad, Vlad has to step in just a bit to connect, this gives Fury time to respond to the punch and lets say, vlad does not go for the feint, quickly closes distance...fury cannot get his head into Vlad's chest, Fury can then use that punch to counter, which he did a couple of times...beautifully I may add...to give vlad the message that even if Vlad gets a punch off, he will pay.

Just forget your opinions for a few minutes and LOOK at what I have given you, taken ten minutes out of my life to do so, LOOK at the fight and you will see these processes playing out.

Was Vlad shot? WHO KNOWS? Thats an opinion. Did Fury do the things mentioned above? YES!!

Brilliant post. If I was a hardcore Wlad supporter with no respect for the history of my sport this would give me pause for thought. That's me though.

[LoadedWraps]

I didn't squirt anything. my opinion about the Lewis fight is well known, I disagree. I think Lewis did something incredibly out if character and ****** when he decided to take that fight. He was preparing for a "gimme." against a guy who was nil a threat. Lewis has shown over the years to respect when a fighter is dangerous. His usual way is to accept the challenge (even when a silly alphabet demands a mandatory) and prepare carefully. The times he got beat, he looked very confused in the ring, like he didn't prepare...but thats on him.

Fact is a worse case Lewis was able to beat Vitalie, thats my opinion. we will never know...thats known as a fact. Would Vlad have prevailed? fact hanging off, getting hit and affected more and more by the onslaught? Maybe. Was Lewis bluffing and ready to go? Lewis isn't telling, if you hold that opinion so be it. I don't.

With Juggy I have seen him argue his points nicely and I respect that. I also don't disagree as much as one might assume...there are certain methods and skills that a guy like Ruddok had, that guys like Golata had, etc. I try in my own behavoir to show respect and courtesy when people argue a point intelligently...I don't always have to have the last word, or be right. That might be what suprises you.

I most certainly do subsribe to the notion that Fury nulified Vlad...its in the tape, you can see Fury feinting, changing positions as Vlad is setting. Its a trick used in the KoRyu systems going back more than 500 years sometimes...At the last instant when the swordsman feels the killing force and starts to feel sick in his stomach, as the blade starts its descent, the swordsman simply thinks "I am already dead" and moves off line ever so subtlety. Its a skill the oldtimers you disparage used considerably, which is why in the original boxing forms, guys were sword length to each other and not squared up...

When you see a guy like Corbett so weak in the range where he is at punch length...wath Tunney fight Dempsey. You will see Corbett's strengths in Tunney and you will see how well he throws dempsey's timing off in that fight....thats the skill that Furrey was working with Elroy and its in the tape if you know what to look for.

You assume a notion that Vlad is shot rather than look at what happened in the fight look at these things and then...I don't have to WIN anything from you, but pay attention to these details if you would:

1) Fury's distance from Vlad. Notice two things, he is often on his back leg (virtually everyone else with exception of maybe thompson was squared up) and moving in a direction blind side away from Vlad's jab.

2) Fury's movement when Vlad gets ready to jab. As Vlad is setting Fury does one of three things: a) he feints b) he moves c) he comes in and puts his head on Vlad's chest. These movements make it frustrating to pull the trigger for Vlad. Hes not shot, hes been nullified because he has not faced guys who know how to use these skills.

You wull see much of what Fury does if you watch the old timers. This is why guys didn't set to punch so much...it telegraphs!

3) How Fury uses his low hand lead. Fury, knowing that Vlad is a flincher, threatens Vlad with this low hand lead, it causes Vlad to hesitate coming in because he does not like to be hit. Again its not being shot, he does not want to get countered with that hand.

Everybody said before the fight "Fury will get Koed cause he drops that hand" well..No. fury is at a distance where he can react to Vlad, Vlad has to step in just a bit to connect, this gives Fury time to respond to the punch and lets say, vlad does not go for the feint, quickly closes distance...fury cannot get his head into Vlad's chest, Fury can then use that punch to counter, which he did a couple of times...beautifully I may add...to give vlad the message that even if Vlad gets a punch off, he will pay.

Just forget your opinions for a few minutes and LOOK at what I have given you, taken ten minutes out of my life to do so, LOOK at the fight and you will see these processes playing out.

Was Vlad shot? WHO KNOWS? Thats an opinion. Did Fury do the things mentioned above? YES!!

[Jewish-Reptile]

I'm liking the new entrees shytting on Wlad as no great champion just an average champ. You guys have literally zero agenda for Fury other than you were desperate to see 'anyone' beat the former champ, and the Fury fans going along with this notion discredit Fury's actual win !

Analysing the fight it is clear to me now Fury took everything Wlad does and utilised his own tactics against him to better effect due to his significant advantages in speed, reflexes, size, reach, youth and so on....

However you carve this up it was an excellent win for Fury, that should not be denied. The notion Wlad is shot is laughable, he did everything in there he usually does but found the target increasingly difficult to hit throughout, again all credit goes to Fury for fighting the perfect fight in the scenario he was faced with. I love it when some fück witted imbecile shouts 'Wlad was shot YO' bellowing it like its a truth, just because you say it with conviction don't mean jack.

The rematch will prove where Wlad is truly at, and between now and then he is no.2 in the division, nothing Deontay Wilder does in that time proves d1ck whilst Wlad is active, Wilder is no.3 at the most minimum, fourth in my opinion after Povetkin, whilst Povetkin has fought some tough sob's and looked like a sex villain whom has just escaped supermax in the process Wilder as looked like a ****phobic straight in a gay bar, facing creme puffs and yup you guessed it, Frenchmen... LMFAO you couldn't make this shyt up.

[RED REP]

I'm liking the new entrees shytting on Wlad as no great champion just an average champ. You guys have literally zero agenda for Fury other than you were desperate to see 'anyone' beat the former champ, and the Fury fans going along with this notion discredit Fury's actual win !

Analysing the fight it is clear to me now Fury took everything Wlad does and utilised his own tactics against him to better effect due to his significant advantages in speed, reflexes, size, reach, youth and so on....

However you carve this up it was an excellent win for Fury, that should not be denied. The notion Wlad is shot is laughable, he did everything in there he usually does but found the target increasingly difficult to hit throughout, again all credit goes to Fury for fighting the perfect fight in the scenario he was faced with. I love it when some fück witted imbecile shouts 'Wlad was shot YO' bellowing it like its a truth, just because you say it with conviction don't mean jack.

The rematch will prove where Wlad is truly at, and between now and then he is no.2 in the division, nothing Deontay Wilder does in that time proves d1ck whilst Wlad is active, Wilder is no.3 at the most minimum, fourth in my opinion after Povetkin, whilst Povetkin has fought some tough sob's and looked like a sex villain whom has just escaped supermax in the process Wilder as looked like a ****phobic straight in a gay bar, facing creme puffs and yup you guessed it, Frenchmen... LMFAO you couldn't make this shyt up.

Good to know you're still with us man.

Stay strong.

#PrayForScott

[Elroy1]

Brilliant post. If I was a hardcore Wlad supporter with no respect for the history of my sport this would give me pause for thought. That's me though.

It was well WORDED, but the content of which basically amounted to this...

"Tyson Fury's boxing was so good as to nullify Wladimir to the point that he was unable to land more than a handful of punches the entire fight including only 18 power punches, and that this would be true of any Wladimir."

bascially compresses to "Wladimir Klitschko, the most dominant champ in history with demonstratably an almost flawless display of boxing acumen ,EVIDENCED on film over decades now, cannot land punches on Tyson Fury"...

Posts from Bill can SEEM convincing to nut bag posters only. Most uneducated nutbags the same as Bill "zoom up" on isolated factors that seem to benefit their reasoning because they know that any form of big picture analysis kills them. Most do this one point per post or so. The difference with Bill is he incorporates multiple isolated points in the same post.

Where there is the exact same false logic however is that the big picture is still lost in the same way..

Stand back and look at it.. Wladimir could never have landed on Fury... OBVIOUSLY this isn't true! And it probably wont even be true in the rematch either WITH a shot Wladimir!

I seen a Wladimir not sharp enough to catch the opportunities that were there IN ABUNDANCE as has been noted already. The same evidence you so called seen in that fight to credit YOUR hypothesis is ALSO fully explainable with the above^^ and in fact falls in line more squarely with common sense.

But it's only because of the powerful nut bag agenda at work here that such garbology that Bill promotes can escape persecution for what it really is.

The nut bag agenda goes somewhat like this...

Fury to be made > Wlad anytime (removing the Soviet threat in favour of a more tolerable British one, a British threat that seems much much less invincible than Wladimir did)
Pre-pro boxers to be made > Fury and Wlad anytime (satisfying nostalgic racist american nut bags)
Wilder to be made > Fury and hence greater than Wlad too (satisfying nationalist and racist, financial and pride based American nut bags agendas)

ALL nut bag posts surrounding these topics will be geared toward these goals.

This whole Tyson Fury saga is merely a stepping stone to the main goals, these are not appraising Fury for his good qualities at all, it is a carefully calculated way to slam Wladimir and his whole career/era for having lost to what they want to promote as a CRAP boxer in Fury (and hence label Wlad a bum too),

[billeau2]

It was well WORDED, but the content of which basically amounted to this...

"Tyson Fury's boxing was so good as to nullify Wladimir to the point that he was unable to land more than a handful of punches the entire fight including only 18 power punches, and that this would be true of any Wladimir."

bascially compresses to "Wladimir Klitschko, the most dominant champ in history with demonstratably an almost flawless display of boxing acumen ,EVIDENCED on film over decades now, cannot land punches on Tyson Fury"...

Posts from Bill can SEEM convincing to nut bag posters only. Most uneducated nutbags the same as Bill "zoom up" on isolated factors that seem to benefit their reasoning because they know that any form of big picture analysis kills them. Most do this one point per post or so. The difference with Bill is he incorporates multiple isolated points in the same post.

Where there is the exact same false logic however is that the big picture is still lost in the same way..

Stand back and look at it.. Wladimir could never have landed on Fury... OBVIOUSLY this isn't true! And it probably wont even be true in the rematch either WITH a shot Wladimir!

I seen a Wladimir not sharp enough to catch the opportunities that were there IN ABUNDANCE as has been noted already. The same evidence you so called seen in that fight to credit YOUR hypothesis is ALSO fully explainable with the above^^ and in fact falls in line more squarely with common sense.

But it's only because of the powerful nut bag agenda at work here that such garbology that Bill promotes can escape persecution for what it really is.

The nut bag agenda goes somewhat like this...

Fury to be made > Wlad anytime (removing the Soviet threat in favour of a more tolerable British one, a British threat that seems much much less invincible than Wladimir did)
Pre-pro boxers to be made > Fury and Wlad anytime (satisfying nostalgic racist american nut bags)
Wilder to be made > Fury and hence greater than Wlad too (satisfying nationalist and racist, financial and pride based American nut bags agendas)

ALL nut bag posts surrounding these topics will be geared toward these goals.

This whole Tyson Fury saga is merely a stepping stone to the main goals, these are not appraising Fury for his good qualities at all, it is a carefully calculated way to slam Wladimir and his whole career/era for having lost to what they want to promote as a CRAP boxer in Fury (and hence label Wlad a bum too),

So thats your answer minus the bs...."just stand there and look at it. You guys know...Vlad is Vlad come on now." How intelligent.

See when your BS is deconstructed, you become the empror with no clothes...Instead of the contrarian, you become the one who has to resort to stereotyping. the content of your post is nil because you cannot say ****. You are being deconstructed piece by piece, just as Joe did to Sonny...

Taking multiple points and incorporating them together, as you accuse me of, is an oxymoron...like you, the statement makes no sense, but you are just a moron minus the Oxi.