"Alien" Hopkins vs "Krusher" Kovalev Post fight Discussion thread

[JmH Reborn]

Hopkins already is greater than Mayweather. He's fought better opponents, in their primes. He's win some, he's lost some. If doesn't even matter what happens against Kov.

[Redd Foxx]

I'd hesitantly say, yes.. Even though he has several losses, it's because he fights the best. Something that Mayweather just doesn't do.

[LacedUp]

in terms of who his oppoents faced - de la hoya fought sturm prior and mosley at welter

trinidad fought joppy in semi final of tournament

taylor fought on the eastman undercard

glen johnson was unbeaten when hopkins faced him , johnson knocked out jones

i dont know who the other guys faced but he dominated all the guys he faced pretty much

lightheavyweight never ducked who the fans thought is the number 1, cant say the same for mayweather and jones - didnt jones duck sven ottke or is that false rumour? and what about the daruis guy?

Johnson knocked Jones out like 10 years after he faced Hopkins.

Taylor hadn't really fought much when he faced Hopkins, but to Hopkins credit I thought he won those fights.

Trinidad was a good win.

I'm just asking who you thought Jones jr should have faced? Sven Ottke?

Jones Jr did not duck him at all - Ottke was fighting bums. Dariusz I guess some people have said he ducked him - but I think it was a money issue more than anything. And really, who did he fight? And what was his marketability like in the states? Non-existent.

I think Michael Nunn was a fight Jones didn't particularly fancy, but he did beat Toney who beat Nunn.

[LacedUp]

Hopkins already is greater than Mayweather. He's fought better opponents, in their primes. He's win some, he's lost some. If doesn't even matter what happens against Kov.

Does he have better wins than Mayweather? Yes or no?

People on this forum have such a short memory. Hopkins are fighting the likes of Shumenov, Cloud and Murat and they're called the best - Mayweather is fighting guys like Canelo and Cotto and they're not the best

Doesn't make sense at all.

I'd hesitantly say, yes.. Even though he has several losses, it's because he fights the best. Something that Mayweather just doesn't do.

But he clearly does though.

The only one he didn't fight was Pacquiao. Did Hopkins fight James Toney? No.

[IronDanHamza]

you also gotta factor in the fact that this is the era of the welters

so mayweather has faced more hall of famers but....hopkins has faced the top guys in his division more so than mayweather

That's untrue.

Mayweather has beaten more Top 5 ranked fighters in the divison being fought in than Hopkins or anyone in his era Infact.

[Philantro]

Lol you want to start talking about whether they were in their prime? OK fine,

Did Mosley not come off his, possibly, career best performance when he fought Floyd? Yes he did. People were saying then that Floyd was ducking Mosley - Now they're saying Mosley was past his prime. Funny how things go.

De la hoya wasn't his absolute prime no, and he was inactive, but they fought at Oscar's weight and Oscar, once again, was also coming off one of his career best performances - as opposed to when Hopkins, the much much bigger guy, fought Oscar at a weight Oscar had only had one fight at, when he didn't look good in a razor close fight against Sturm, a fight many thought could have gone the other way.

Which is better?

Sure, Mayweather weighed in above 144, so effing what? Marquez campaigned at 147 for everyone of his fights only a year later. Not to mention he was coming off two excellent wins and could have had a win against Pacquiao as well. Wouldn't exactly call it scandalous - nevertheless, I don't even see 1 win on Hopkins resume that is as good as JMM.

Hopkins fought Pavlik at 170 - doesn't get credit for that then in your book. He fought Wright at 175 - doesn't get credit for that. He fought Oscar at 160 - doesn't get credit for that.

That leaves how many wins? Tito, Tarver, Glen Johnson, Cloud & Pascal. Are you honestly trying to tell me that those wins measure up to Hatton, Cotto - who you say was 3 years past his prime, but still came off his career most important win and has now gone on to win the MW championship - Hernandez, the long time SFW champion, Castillo, the reigning lightweight champion, and then another belt holder at 135 in Corrales who was a true warrior and a great champion?

Then you can add all the Maidana, Guerrero, Ortiz, Baldomir, Gatti, Judah, Canelo etc etc. From what I can count off Floyd's resume - He's beaten 10+ ATG/HOFamers - who 9/10 times were coming off one of the best wins in their careers but according to you automatically are shot when they fight Floyd.

Let's count how many are on Hopkins resume?

Tito, Oscar.... Tarver with an outside chance to get in the HOF? And shot to shiz Jones Jr who schooled him when both were at a better stage in their careers.

Hopkins also lost to most of the best fighters he faced like Jones jr, Calzaghe, Dawson, whilst managing to win against Tarver and Tito at their natural weight.

I can't believe you've made me stick up for Floyd on this, I'm not even a fan of his - or Hopkins for that matter - but Mayweather's resume is simply miles better than Hopkins' is.

You don't have to stick up for Floyd if you don't want to. One thing that is lacking on Floyd's resume since 2007 is top three fighters. He has consistently avoided the three best fighters since 2007, which in many eyes makes him a ducker. I will try to show you whom he avoided since 2007...

The three best were avoided in 2007
1.Antonio Margarito at 147lbs
2.Paul Williams at 147lbs
3.Miguel Cotto at 147lbs

The three best were avoided in 2008
1.Paul Williams at 147lbs
2.Antonio Margarito at 147lbs
3.Miguel Cotto at 147lbs

The three best were avoided in 2009
1.Manny Pacquiao at 147lbs
2.Paul Williams at 147-154lbs
3.Miguel Cotto at 147lbs

The three best were avoided in 2010
1.Manny Pacquiao at 147lbs
2.Paul Williams at 147-154lbs
3.Sergio Martinez at 154lbs

The three best were avoided in 2011
1.Sergio Martinez at 154lbs
2.Manny Pacquiao at 147lbs
3.Erislandy Lara at 154lbs

The three best were avoided in 2012
1.Sergio Martinez at 154lbs
2.Manny Pacquiao at 147lbs
3.Erislandy Lara at 154lbs

The three best were avoided in 2013
1.Sergio Martinez at 154lbs
2.Erislandy Lara at 154lbs
3.Manny Pacquiao at 147lbs

The three best are avoided in 2014
1. Gennady Golovkin at 154lbs
2. Erislandy Lara at 154lbs
3. Manny Pacquiao at 147lbs

On the other hand, I cannot see that B-Hop had made such an effort to avoid the best as Floyd has done, which automatically puts him higher.




.

[LacedUp]

You don't have to stick up for Floyd if you don't want to. One thing that is lacking on Floyd's resume since 2007 is top three fighters. He has consistently avoided the three best fighters since 2007, which in many eyes makes him a ducker. I will try to show you whom he avoided since 2007...

The three best were avoided in 2007
1.Antonio Margarito at 147lbs
2.Paul Williams at 147lbs
3.Miguel Cotto at 147lbs

The three best were avoided in 2008
1.Paul Williams at 147lbs
2.Antonio Margarito at 147lbs
3.Miguel Cotto at 147lbs

The three best were avoided in 2009
1.Manny Pacquiao at 147lbs
2.Paul Williams at 147-154lbs
3.Miguel Cotto at 147lbs

The three best were avoided in 2010
1.Manny Pacquiao at 147lbs
2.Paul Williams at 147-154lbs
3.Sergio Martinez at 154lbs

The three best were avoided in 2011
1.Sergio Martinez at 154lbs
2.Manny Pacquiao at 147lbs
3.Erislandy Lara at 154lbs

The three best were avoided in 2012
1.Sergio Martinez at 154lbs
2.Manny Pacquiao at 147lbs
3.Erislandy Lara at 154lbs

The three best were avoided in 2013
1.Sergio Martinez at 154lbs
2.Erislandy Lara at 154lbs
3.Manny Pacquiao at 147lbs

The three best are avoided in 2014
1. Gennady Golovkin at 154lbs
2. Erislandy Lara at 154lbs
3. Manny Pacquiao at 147lbs

On the other hand, I cannot see that B-Hop had made such an effort to avoid the best as Floyd has done, which automatically puts him higher.




.

I see what you're trying to do and you have your weights mixed up.

Fact is, someone like Margarito was beaten by Mosley who then was beaten by Mayweather. Cotto was knocked out twice in that time, built himself up again - and then mayweather beat him.

Martinez has fought at MW for the best part of 4-5 years now - and wasn't really a name at LMW, especially before he fought Williams and Pavlik - at middleweight mind you.

GGG campaigns at 160 - Floyd at 147. Try and see some sense as well.

Lara at 154? Come on man. He stinks the place out and is not a PPV fighter - Floyd beat the better fighter in Canelo and the bigger name with a more impressive record.

And then Manny Pacquiao - yes there were issues there. Let's not forget that he was laid out flat on his face and lost twice in 2012 - Yet you still have him on your most avoided list for 2012, 2013 & 2014.. Strange.

Suggests an agenda to me.

[Juof]

Hopkins will beat kovalev

[Devils Advocate]

I already have Hopkins well above Floyd on my ATG list.

Floyd's only real notable win against a quality fighter in his prime was against Jose luis Castillo, and he lost the first fight. I don't know how you can be an all time great with only 1 notable win.

Damn remember the Hopkins/Echols fights? That was one of the dirtiest entertaining fights ever. Echols slammed the *** out of Hopkins and I laughed so hard b/c I hated the shyt out of BHop. Hopkins beat all of my G'dam favorite fighters that I can't help but Cheer for him now. I lost my left nut when Pascal knocked BHop down but then lost my voice screaming at the TV as Pascal became confused, tired, and all the rest of the mental anguish Bhop puts guys through started settling in. I hated that Pascal took the rematch but after the push-up incident I realized I was watching a legend in the ring. Bernard Hopkins has never ducked anyone I can remember oh yeah I actually cheered watching him beat the crap out of Tarver because I hated him to, of course all in good fun.

[jas]

That's untrue.

Mayweather has beaten more Top 5 ranked fighters in the divison being fought in than Hopkins or anyone in his era Infact.

i was referring to the number 1 guys