Marquez: Skilled Cotto studied less skilled Martinez

[CatchAndShoot]

i never said sergio was 100% in this fight my thing is he loses to cotto at any point...if his head movement was so great why was he always knocked down and or troubled with n hit alot vs lesser technical/slower boxers? he had no good head movement (some movement but not great) but he has great lower body movement, a hell of an athlete for sure i wish i was in that kinda shape to fight that style...

That's still my point. He didn't even have "some" head movement. And you're downplaying how non 100% he was. His legs being shot means he's not even a top 20-30 MW at this point. It literally means that.

Take away Pacqquiao's legs, and what happens? Pacquiao would still be able to move around the ring and APPEAR like he's doing something, but the finer details of why he's elite wouldn't be there, and that would get him hurt, badly.

Agree to disagree.

[Doctor_Tenma]

That's still my point. He didn't even have "some" head movement. And you're downplaying how non 100% he was. His legs being shot means he's not even a top 20-30 MW at this point. It literally means that.

Take away Pacqquiao's legs, and what happens? Pacquiao would still be able to move around the ring and APPEAR like he's doing something, but the finer details of why he's elite wouldn't be there, and that would get him hurt, badly.

Agree to disagree.

Holy ish, I was about to bring up Pacquiao as well. Imagine if Pacquiao couldn't step in with his punches anymore, what would he be?

People are too dismissive...

[MaraVeeYah!]

i never said sergio was 100% in this fight my thing is he loses to cotto at any point...if his head movement was so great why was he always knocked down and or troubled with n hit alot vs lesser technical/slower boxers? he had no good head movement (some movement but not great) but he has great lower body movement, a hell of an athlete for sure i wish i was in that kinda shape to fight that style...

This is true. If anything, Sergio fans have the excuse/luxury of putting his loss on a small tear to his knee in the past. Cotto whoops on a 100% Sergio faster than Margarito did. I like too, how Sergio's fans point out Sergio not being 100%, but ignore Pavlik being sick, and nowhere near 100% and also neglect to mention how Chavez Jr. did not even train for Sergio. Martinez had a risky stylethat worked on slow fighters. Would not work on Cotto.

[CatchAndShoot]

Holy ish, I was about to bring up Pacquiao as well. Imagine if Pacquiao couldn't step in with his punches anymore, what would he be?

People are too dismissive...

He'd be a guy throwing arm punches, and getting rocked to death by top 10-20 boxers. Not even exaggerating. Taking away Sergio or Manny's legs would be like flattening a Nascar racers tires by a little bit, and expecting him to compete with the top 20 in the sport. Doesn't matter how great your mind or spirit is.

Way too dismissive.

[MurkaMan]

when has sergio ever had good head movement? his defense was his movement which is why hes always knocked down and off balance, it worked for him against not so great boxers but its not gonna cut it vs top fighters bro

Sergio has always been able to slip and slide. Go back and watch his fight against Chavez Jr. It was a masterclass. But with his aging, and his hands down style, when he moves his head, it will run into the punches of a more conventional textbook boxer like Cotto.

[Doctor_Tenma]

This is true. If anything, Sergio fans have the excuse/luxury of putting his loss on a small tear to his knee in the past. Cotto whoops on a 100% Sergio faster than Margarito did. I like too, how Sergio's fans point out Sergio not being 100%, but ignore Pavlik being sick, and nowhere near 100% and also neglect to mention how Chavez Jr. did not even train for Sergio. Martinez had a risky stylethat worked on slow fighters. Would not work on Cotto.

When one is this delusional it's obviously trolling.

Martinez blasted away at Barker because he could step in with his punches, he couldn't do the same against Murray who came at him behind a similarly tight guard, he couldn't even counter when the opportunities were there, that told me everything I needed to know. On top of that Martinez doesn't operate under a style that can compensate for his decline.

It's like Hopkins-Pascal I, Hopkins couldn't counter as well as we're used to seeing and every time he looked for the counter he got clocked, so he went back to his seek and destroy-approach that helped him in his MW reign, he took the initiative and Pascal was completely neutralized after. Not only did Martinez not have the skills to do that, he didn't have the legs. There was literally nothing else he could sit on except a beating.

[Lords]

That's still my point. He didn't even have "some" head movement. And you're downplaying how non 100% he was. His legs being shot means he's not even a top 20-30 MW at this point. It literally means that.

Take away Pacqquiao's legs, and what happens? Pacquiao would still be able to move around the ring and APPEAR like he's doing something, but the finer details of why he's elite wouldn't be there, and that would get him hurt, badly.

Agree to disagree.

Thanks for the laugh.

[Spray_resistant]

Cotto is the better skilled boxer, Sergio was never a master technician. He was like Roy Jones in the sense that his style relied of athletic talent. Without his legs he had a hard time avoiding Cotto, getting away when he wanted, getting in when he wanted for offense, even if he was able to get in some offense no base of power on weak legs so forget a Paul William's like ko out of nowhere.

If you watch the fight his legs were such jello that in clenches in close Cotto a natural WW was easily muscling Sergio around like a rag doll.

That said, it was a big risk Cotto took not knowing how Sergio would perform, the rest could have rejuvenated him back to 100% for all he or anyone knew but he is getting old and there was no going back so Cotto's risk paid off and he won impressively even when going in favored by most myself included to get stopped.

[CatchAndShoot]

That said, it was a big risk Cotto took not knowing how Sergio would perform, the rest could have rejuvenated him back to 100% for all he or anyone knew but he is getting old and there was no going back so Cotto's risk paid off and he won impressively even when going in favored by most myself included to get stopped.

A risk not many former WWs and blown up JMWs would've taken. Cotto's a warrior and has an ATG nut sack.

I'm using hindsight in saying that Sergio wasn't the same, but still, Cotto knew he could have been facing a rejuvenated Sergio, and still fought him. Not taking anything away from him. He gets insane amounts of props, regardless of what I say about how Sergio looked that night.

[jcj0427]

This is true. If anything, Sergio fans have the excuse/luxury of putting his loss on a small tear to his knee in the past. Cotto whoops on a 100% Sergio faster than Margarito did. I like too, how Sergio's fans point out Sergio not being 100%, but ignore Pavlik being sick, and nowhere near 100% and also neglect to mention how Chavez Jr. did not even train for Sergio. Martinez had a risky stylethat worked on slow fighters. Would not work on Cotto.

Small tear to his knees? He was on crutches for 6 months after the surgery. Be realistic here. A 2010 Sergio makes it a competitive interesting fight with Martinez a favorite. The Margarito fight was 14 years ago, not very relevant there man. The only thing risky about this fight was Sergios knees which were very evident that they were done. The fact of the matter is Cotto beat a bum in Rodriguez and a crippled in Sergio. And before that he lost to the very average Austin Trout who was unmasked as nothing but a ordinary fighter by Canelo and Lara. Cotto fans need to take a dose of reality.