The Greatness of Wladimir Klitschko

[Weltschmerz]

Yeah they're trying to claim on the other thread too that we're the crazy ones too. As if our argument has been that size trumps skills.

Of course a smaller fighter can beat a bigger fighter, that's a no ****ing brainer, otherwise there'd be no point to boxing!

The obvious point is that the greater the weight difference, the greater the advantage for the heavier opponent all else aside. Now who the hell would argue that?

But no, lets go change around what has been said to something ******ed.

OneMoreRound and LacedUp are paid to defend this, I am sure of it.

I think so, especially LacedUp as he claims he's some fancy journalist or something.

[Weltschmerz]

Looks like they finally ran off with their tails between their legs after my latest onslaught.

[Suckmedry]

Then why didn't Haye beat Wladimir? LacedUp has claimed in the past that Haye is better than Wladimir, p4p (I know, it's a ******ed claim).

As we know, that didn't happen. Wlad just shut him down. A great big man beats a great smaller man.

And what the fck does that have to do with anything that I say? And haye didn't win because haye isn't that great of a fighter, and he did fck all in that fight but run away.

[Elroy1]

The funniest thing is I bet if you asked Wlad his opinion on this, an off the record, honest one, he would tell you that Ali was a great fighter who would cause problems for any HW. Sure he would probably think he would beat Ali, as a fighter would, but no way would he show him the level of disrespect these idiots do, and I really doubt he would believe boxing has somehow "evolved" in the past 30-40 years.

I bet he wouldn't rubbish a fighter because he isn't like that. But I also bet he definitely agrees it has evolved since he was a very prominent figure in transforming it himself!

And honestly look at Ali, just LOOK at him, how the hell does that guy pose a threat to any HW?

50 years on and this guy STILL gets such love. Show me a single performance of Ali that suggests he is anything special?

Don't give me Terrell in 67 because Terrell is a terrible opponent, don't give me Foreman because Foreman punched himself out, don't tell me FOTC because that fight proved that both of them were weak punchbags.

But hey, let's not stop at WK, lets ask another modern champ...

I forget when exactly but I'm sure we could source it somewhere... But Evander Holyfield shortly becoming HW champion was once asked to give an interview. He was asked to read a scripted passage that paid homage to the great Muhammad Ali and hold him as the best ever. But Evander hesitated, and he didn't follow the script to the shock of the producer. Instead he told about how boxing has evolved and he would have beaten all who came before, that because of modern training methods and advances in sports science, that the modern boxer does not have to fight as often but because of his advanced training systems they were doubly effective. And that the only people who claim that it isn't so are the ones that do not have to fight against it!

I believe Holyfield was correct.

[LacedUp]

I bet he wouldn't rubbish a fighter because he isn't like that. But I also bet he definitely agrees it has evolved since he was a very prominent figure in transforming it himself!

And honestly look at Ali, just LOOK at him, how the hell does that guy pose a threat to any HW?

50 years on and this guy STILL gets such love. Show me a single performance of Ali that suggests he is anything special?

Don't give me Terrell in 67 because Terrell is a terrible opponent, don't give me Foreman because Foreman punched himself out, don't tell me FOTC because that fight proved that both of them were weak punchbags.

But hey, let's not stop at WK, lets ask another modern champ...

I forget when exactly but I'm sure we could source it somewhere... But Evander Holyfield shortly becoming HW champion was once asked to give an interview. He was asked to read a scripted passage that paid homage to the great Muhammad Ali and hold him as the best ever. But Evander hesitated, and he didn't follow the script to the shock of the producer. Instead he told about how boxing has evolved and he would have beaten all who came before, that because of modern training methods and advances in sports science, that the modern boxer does not have to fight as often but because of his advanced training systems they were doubly effective. And that the only people who claim that it isn't so are the ones that do not have to fight against it!

I believe Holyfield was correct.

Cleveland Williams?

[Suckmedry]

I certainly would bet on Wladimir. They are only defending Ali because they feel they have to at all costs, because he is labeled the forever Greatest of All Times.

But think about it, how lame is that in its essence? It is like saying that no greater fighter can ever exist after Ali, which is of course childish nonsense.

Lol. It's not even like Ali is my all time no.1 favourite. I just think a heavyweight of his calibre

1. Does not exist in today's pathetic excuse for a hw division

And 2. Would beat wlad.

End of story.

[Elroy1]

I think so, especially LacedUp as he claims he's some fancy journalist or something.

Oh really? No ****.

Those guys are the worst! And yep they are paid. Most of them have never even boxed, they are required for their job to go with the public opinion (unfortunately an American one) and they present the most persistent obstacle to common sense.

I got in trouble for drilling Matt McGrain once, apparently untouchable, knows absolutely nothing about boxing, just a white collar and isn't even a very good writer! LOL

Atleast LacedUp hasn't used the comeback "Show me a historian who agrees with you yet", that one makes me sick!

Of course a boxing historian isn't going to want to hear the truth LOL But nevertheless, just recently I did in fact find one, I'll post it up when I can ey, the guys actually calls Ali a bum heaps of times and picks him apart, old dude too LOL

[Fr3$h]

If you had never seen these two guys fight before, there wasn't all that nostalgia and glitter surrounding the fight, you were just watching two modern prospects, you would give either of these guys a chance against Wladimir? Be honest with yourselves.



I just don't see it. Frazier's constant wild, telegraphed, Gatti-like hooks, Ali's squared off stance and long moments of arm-punching complacency and straight movement. I will merely mention (since it's been mentioned plenty) that in modern times these guys wouldn't even be heavyweights (especially Frazier), but lets ignore that and pretend they would be. Look at the boxing, not the size.

I seem to see most modern fights the same way the majority sees them. I rarely cry robbery etc. I just don't seem to be mystified by nostalgia.

I watched Hagler-Hearns last night and all I could think during their long periods of wild hyper, acrobatic punching was how an elusive guy who makes people miss then picks his punches like Toney or Floyd would have made them look ****** several times while they were hammering away ala Gatti-Ward.

I feel like a lot of that enthusiasm is due to the fact that unlike with Gatti-Ward, where Floyd bursted everyone's bubble and showed that the reason that fight was so great was because both guys were equally flawed, back in the day there was no Wladimir or Floyd to do that. These sloppy wars were the top of the pyramid and people loved that.

[Elroy1]

I've got a good one for ya all... It really needs it's own thread but here's good enough...

Why is the HW division today not dominated by a 212lb runner with no punch and a questionable chin?

You see, guys like OneMoreRound and paid journalists like LacedUp like to infuse Ali with mythical qualities that never existed and pitt him as the winner against a dumbed down WK and the rest of the modern HW division.

But the talent pool is triple the size as it was then, and 6'3" skinny guys are everywhere now and Ali's style of hit and run was pretty easily copyable, as several fighters did in fact try to do. So given that there should be plenty of candidates for the job.. Where are they???

You see the OTNB community has never been able to successfully form a theory why this is so?

But I think I know the answer why they are not there. It just might be, crazy as it sounds, that that combination of qualities simply just isn't effective anymore. That a guy of that calibre and skillset cannot make it to top level HW anymore.

Perhaps that explains why there will never be another Muhammad Ali!

[Weltschmerz]

And what the fck does that have to do with anything that I say? And haye didn't win because haye isn't that great of a fighter, and he did fck all in that fight but run away.

Aren't you the same person as LacedUp? You follow each other around all the time and say almost identical things as if on repeat. Sort of like listening to a broken record player.