The Greatness of Wladimir Klitschko

[Elroy1]

If you had never seen these two guys fight before, there wasn't all that nostalgia and glitter surrounding the fight, you were just watching two modern prospects, you would give either of these guys a chance against Wladimir? Be honest with yourselves.



I just don't see it. Frazier's constant wild, telegraphed, Gatti-like hooks, Ali's squared off stance and long moments of arm-punching complacency and straight movement. I will merely mention (since it's been mentioned plenty) that in modern times these guys wouldn't even be heavyweights (especially Frazier), but lets ignore that and pretend they would be. Look at the boxing, not the size.

I seem to see most modern fights the same way the majority sees them. I rarely cry robbery etc. I just don't seem to be mystified by nostalgia.

I watched Hagler-Hearns last night and all I could think during their long periods of wild hyper, acrobatic punching was how an elusive guy who makes people miss then picks his punches like Toney or Floyd would have made them look ****** several times while they were hammering away ala Gatti-Ward.

I feel like a lot of that enthusiasm is due to the fact that unlike with Gatti-Ward, where Floyd bursted everyone's bubble and showed that the reason that fight was so great was because both guys were equally flawed, back in the day there was no Wladimir or Floyd to do that. These sloppy wars were the top of the pyramid and people loved that.

Good post Lebanon, thanks for the vid, I can't post any. That's just it, this fight has been used by these guys among others as proof of how skilful, how athletic, how powerful they were.

I think everyone involved in this thread should look at these exchanges with a critical eye, the OTNB in particular, ask yourself is that really good boxing? Is that really technically correct would that really be enough?

I don't see how it is really possible that these guys can be considered as good as they are pumped up to be given empirical evidence.

[Dr.Eisenfaust]

Don't forget the likes of Pianeta, Wach, Mormeck, Tony Thompson, Rahman, 40 year old shannon briggs, sosnowski, Chambers, Adamek, Kingpin Johnson, Danny Williams...... That's one sorry ass list btw.

But Ali on the hand... Never!

Mormeck knocked down your boy David Haye ( well you keep talking about knock downs ... a weak argument IMO).

Shannon Briggs at 38 years old fought Vitali Klitschko. Wait a minute... WK is 38 years old and the universally recognized HW champion. Vitali Klitschko, at this age, was battering a young fresh Chris Arreola...

Thompson destroyed your other boy David Price. He beat Krasniqi and Solis, so what#s your point??

WK fought Rahman because the K brothers are gentlemen : Vitali got injured before fighting Rahman, Wladimir gave the latter a title shot ( the same applies to Chisora).

You rate Adamek as being a tomato can? Get out of here!! Adamek was the WBC mandatory and a top contender, Vitali simply sliced him into pieces.

Let me remind you that at the time your boy David Haye was ducking Wladimir the latter had to keep busy. And since most of the top contender say " I am not ready yet" the best fight that was available to prepare for Haye was Chambers because of his blazing speed.

Danny Williams just knocked out Mike Tyson when he fought Vitali and he got demolished.

And tell me, who really wanted to fight Wladimir Klitschko when he fought Wach and Pianeta? You even have the answer by James Ali Bashir himself who openly admitted that Fury and Wilder were openly ducking Klitschko...

Man, your hate goes beyond rationality!!

[B-Bomber]

I like Evola because (like me) he was very openly anti-American and anti-democracy. I'm rather indifferent to his views on the hierarchy of European genealogy being that I'm Middle Eastern.

I would maybe even wonder that Wladimir has more non-white fans than white fans in the west (west of Germany). Most western whites were raised by hippie-era parents and corporate television. They're very unlikely to cheer for him for the very reason that he is white. In those cultures white people are supposed to be wearing fedora hats, feeding the poor, politely going extinct, etc. Not fighting.

What I do wonder is why people always pick Ali as an example of a heavyweight who would outclass Wladimir. Why? Ali's style was absolutely terrible for Wladimir. Why not Foreman, who would be far more likely to knock him out while Ali harmlessly danced at the end of a much stronger athlete's jab, with Wlad completely ignoring all of his lures?

I agree that Ali has a better resume. I just don't see how he would beat Wladimir in a fight.

If you are from Lebanon, as I assume, your country had quite a relevant part in European history. The Phoenicians lived in the area, then they were included in the Roman Empire and later in the Ottoman Empire, I am however glad that you seem to not openly embrace Evola's racial theories (at least).

As for what I'd call your bias against Ali, you are anti-American by your own admission, and Ali is american.
Also you seem to despise a culture which is, to use your own words, politely going extinct. That once again is not surprising given your political background, and I think you are likely to despise somebody refusing to go to war for his own country.


But back to boxing, you are right regarding Foreman, in my opinion he would knock Wlad out, while Ali might have a more competitive fight, likely to go to distance.

[Weltschmerz]

Also LOL at people saying nobody should criticize Ali, simply due to his sacred status among the nostalgic boxing community. Wladimir Klitschko is a gentleman and refuses to answer the question of the h2h fight. We all know the arrogance level of Ali talking about other fighters, how vile and downright evil minded his comments would be from time to time. Hypocrisy and double standards at their finest! Welcome to planet nostalgia!

[Mr.Fantastic]

Funny how these dudes have to depend on a coward like Ali to degrade Wlad. Ali didn't even want to fight for his country.

[Suckmedry]

Funny how these dudes have to depend on a coward like Ali to degrade Wlad. Ali didn't even want to fight for his country.

A country that wouldn't let him eat the same restraunt as a white man.

Lol at calling Ali a coward. Ali is the polar opposite of a coward.

[Elroy1]

Mormeck knocked down your boy David Haye ( well you keep talking about knock downs ... a weak argument IMO).

Shannon Briggs at 38 years old fought Vitali Klitschko. Wait a minute... WK is 38 years old and the universally recognized HW champion. Vitali Klitschko, at this age, was battering a young fresh Chris Arreola...

Thompson destroyed your other boy David Price. He beat Krasniqi and Solis, so what#s your point??

WK fought Rahman because the K brothers are gentlemen : Vitali got injured before fighting Rahman, Wladimir gave the latter a title shot ( the same applies to Chisora).

You rate Adamek as being a tomato can? Get out of here!! Adamek was the WBC mandatory and a top contender, Vitali simply sliced him into pieces.

Let me remind you that at the time your boy David Haye was ducking Wladimir the latter had to keep busy. And since most of the top contender say " I am not ready yet" the best fight that was available to prepare for Haye was Chambers because of his blazing speed.

Danny Williams just knocked out Mike Tyson when he fought Vitali and he got demolished.

And tell me, who really wanted to fight Wladimir Klitschko when he fought Wach and Pianeta? You even have the answer by James Ali Bashir himself who openly admitted that Fury and Wilder were openly ducking Klitschko...

Man, your hate goes beyond rationality!!

He can't respond to any of that my friend, every line is true but it will fall on death ears because it's his paying job to maintain the myth.

Imagine what modern HW top contenders must think of all this **** today that gets thrown around these forums. That they are forced to live in the shadows of guys 50-100years previous that weren't really good enough for serious sparring let alone real opponents. They must be disgusted!

[Suckmedry]

Oh really? No ****.

Those guys are the worst! And yep they are paid. Most of them have never even boxed, they are required for their job to go with the public opinion (unfortunately an American one) and they present the most persistent obstacle to common sense.

I got in trouble for drilling Matt McGrain once, apparently untouchable, knows absolutely nothing about boxing, just a white collar and isn't even a very good writer! LOL

Atleast LacedUp hasn't used the comeback "Show me a historian who agrees with you yet", that one makes me sick!
See
Of course a boxing historian isn't going to want to hear the truth LOL But nevertheless, just recently I did in fact find one, I'll post it up when I can ey, the guys actually calls Ali a bum heaps of times and picks him apart, old dude too LOL

I Boxed for 4 yrs and had 25 amateur fights..what's your boxing background ?

[Elroy1]

A country that wouldn't let him eat the same restraunt as a white man.

Lol at calling Ali a coward. Ali is the polar opposite of a coward.

Although you disgrace me over all, I'm afraid I can't agree with that one. Ali was not a coward, he fought all comers.

Even Foreman, he only ducked a Foreman rematch but can't say I blame him there.

Who the hell would want to fight for America anyway, look how bad it's becoming now!

[Elroy1]

I Boxed for 4 yrs and had 25 amateur fights..what's your boxing background ?

Yeah I was an amateur too, in Australia. I boxed when I was 15/16 for 2 years, moved to the country and just lifted weights ran and then took it up later again at 25 when I moved back until a few years ago, I have son, study, work, wife and other commitments now as well but still keep fit, have some backyard equip.

I had 3 fights, but sparred always, won all 3 though.

And how old are you then?

You cannot be less than 50 for you to be buying into this rubbish. Don't you realise this sort of stuff is damaging the credibility of our sport? Name one other sport where the proponents of 50 years ago could be competitive today? I don't think so.