Which is worse: PEDs or Illegal hand wraps?

[Firefist]

There is many cases that a rapist gets 20+ to life and murderers get less than 10 years.

And then it comes down to the gender, age, and race of both the rapist and victim. You can play in the grey forever. And if we're talking about prison remember that 1/6 are in there for marijuana charges, so the law becomes even more murky.

I have Crohn's disease and would likely be in bed on disability without cannabis. I've fought amateur matches at the local level several times even though THC is a banned substance. I did something wrong technically. Would you put me on the same level as someone with loaded gloves?

Yes, certain wins should have an asterisk next to them, but again you have to add circumstance. Toney did come up positive for testosterone that he used knowingly because he has a damaged pituitary gland from so much head trauma.

In other sports there is a limit to how much testosterone you can have which allows wiggle room for "natural" products that exacerbate your own bodies production of the hormone. Other than football it is not common for athletes to have the same problem as James.

Should the rule be that damaged athletes are allowed to supplement until their hormone levels are on par with other athletes or that any steroid use is unjustified no matter the reason. There are too many variables to come up with a rule that works for everyone and the decision was made. Toney was punished and lost his title. It's official.

Should his other wins be questioned? Certainly not. Not on the level of Margarito's controversy.

What you're trying to do is create absolute wrongs and rights in a black and white way. I know it seems like the objective thing to do but in order to be objective you need to consider all of the facts and acknowledge that not all situations are created equal. Otherwise you end up with a much uglier picture than when you started.

[Mr.Fantastic]

And then it comes down to the gender, age, and race of both the rapist and victim. You can play in the grey forever. And if we're talking about prison remember that 1/6 are in there for marijuana charges, so the law becomes even more murky.

I have Crohn's disease and would likely be in bed on disability without cannabis. I've fought amateur matches at the local level several times even though THC is a banned substance. I did something wrong technically. Would you put me on the same level as someone with loaded gloves?

Yes, certain wins should have an asterisk next to them, but again you have to add circumstance. Toney did come up positive for testosterone that he used knowingly because he has a damaged pituitary gland from so much head trauma.

In other sports there is a limit to how much testosterone you can have which allows wiggle room for "natural" products that exacerbate your own bodies production of the hormone. Other than football it is not common for athletes to have the same problem as James.

Should the rule be that damaged athletes are allowed to supplement until their hormone levels are on par with other athletes or that any steroid use is unjustified no matter the reason. There are too many variables to come up with a rule that works for everyone and the decision was made. Toney was punished and lost his title. It's official.

Should his other wins be questioned? Certainly not. Not on the level of Margarito's controversy.

What you're trying to do is create absolute wrongs and rights in a black and white way. I know it seems like the objective thing to do but in order to be objective you need to consider all of the facts and acknowledge that not all situations are created equal. Otherwise you end up with a much uglier picture than when you started.

Yes, you did something illegal. I see your point but it plays a lot into favoritism. I have no issue if people would question someone else's resume cause cheating is cheating.

He knew he was cheating(Toney), that isn't a legit excuse. Specially since he's a grown ass man. He should of suffered a more severe punishment. He shouldn't be considered for the HOF along with the others if the same standards go for Margarito who did not use them in a fight.

Yes they should be questioned.

[The Gambler1981]

You don't even have to **** several people before to even get more than 20 years. Like I said, attorneys, politics, etc.


I'm not, but the ones that questions someone's accomplishments while praising another cheater is just laughable. Like I said, standards changing just cause they like/dislike.

Yea and you can get all sorts of time for premeditated murder 25-30 plus. Go up to 100 random people and ask the worse crime I would venture a guess that 85+ would say murder.

It is the same thing here, those guys clearly did wrong taking PED but most fans don't feel the same way about that as they do about loaded wraps. People are probably too lenient on the PED users but I would say lots of people are pretty lenient about the loaded wraps also.

[Mr.Fantastic]

Yea and you can get all sorts of time for premeditated murder 25-30 plus. Go up to 100 random people and ask the worse crime I would venture a guess that 85+ would say murder.

It is the same thing here, those guys clearly did wrong taking PED but most fans don't feel the same way about that as they do about loaded wraps. People are probably too lenient on the PED users but I would say lots of people are pretty lenient about the loaded wraps also.

It's most fans cause it affects them due to hate and other matters.

It's the same with a lot of Mexicans with Margarito. Look at his fan base even after the whole trying to cheat incident. People still lined up to take pictures with him and cheer for him.

We have that similar situation here with Americans/African Americans too.

They are lenient with some and others, they law down the law...specially with latinos.

[The Gambler1981]

It's most fans cause it affects them due to hate and other matters.

It's the same with a lot of Mexicans with Margarito. Look at his fan base even after the whole trying to cheat incident. People still lined up to take pictures with him and cheer for him.

We have that similar situation here with Americans/African Americans too.

They are lenient with some and others, they law down the law...specially with latinos.

I just don't think all those events are equivalent at all.

If you think a crime is of lesser value you are likely to be more forgiving, some of that other stuff goes into it also I can't deny that. Plus in talking about here specifically people are always out to get someone, and when the right time comes they crucify them which leads to people waiting in the weeds to crucify that groups guy. So all sorts of **** is at play.

[Firefist]

Yes, you did something illegal. I see your point but it plays a lot into favoritism. I have no issue if people would question someone else's resume cause cheating is cheating.

He knew he was cheating(Toney), that isn't a legit excuse. Specially since he's a grown ass man. He should of suffered a more severe punishment. He shouldn't be considered for the HOF along with the others if the same standards go for Margarito who did not use them in a fight.

Yes they should be questioned.

The fact that you consider a harmless substance with no performance benefits on the same level as potential murder weapons says enough about your thought process. Especially since right here

Look what happens in other sports for steroids....you get banned and other stuff. In boxing, where you're hitting someone, you get a slap on the hand if you're black. If you're latino, you get a year's worth for even smoking weed.

you're directing contradicting yourself by saying that PEDs are indeed worst than weed because black boxers get away with the greater crime of PED use over Mexican fighters who simply get caught with THC in their system.

No one claimed it was a legitimate excuse. I only gave an example of someone who was playing between the lines and got punished. He lost several months of his life and another spot in history due to his decision.

There is no evidence to suggest that this was a recurring problem that has happened before or since and thus shouldn't ruin the man's life when the problem is clearly over. You will not find another person here who will take your stance on this.

Even though Margarito didn't use the wraps in the ring against Shane, he was going to. In addition there's the Cotto fight which does have some serious question marks surrounding it. Because we cannot answer what happened that night THAT is what shrouds Tony's career in doubt.

In this thread we've also more or less come to the consensus on why loaded gloves are a much more serious crime than PED use. I'll quote my own post.

PEDS are unsportsmanlike because they do give you an inhuman advantage in terms of stamina and recovery. Imagine training for four months and going life and death with someone to a close SD loss to hear rumors of PED use. It either makes you want to quit or join the party.

Loaded wraps have absolutely no purpose but to hurt, disfigure, and potentially ruin your opponent permanently both in and out of the ring. It's more than unsportsmanlike conduct and if a fighter is caught with them he should be tried to the full extent of the law.

Resto got charged with assault and criminal possession of a weapon. It's very possible to add attempted murder to the list depending on the situation...fortunately this problem doesn't come up often.

I don't know why you're continually bringing the race issue into this discussion either. Sure, it has a place but if anything it makes YOU look more biased. Especially because you've brought it up unsolicited more than once.

I have to say it again. You're trying to create a black and white/right and wrong world where yes and no are the only answers to any dilemma without thinking between the lines or considering any additional information. I'm sure you know a lot about boxing but when it comes to ethics you can't be more off base.

[RL_GMA]

Hand wraps

When has steroids or PEDs put a fighter in a hospital or killed?

[-MEGA-]

What if you soaked your hand wraps in steroids??

[Mr.Fantastic]

The fact that you consider a harmless substance with no performance benefits on the same level as potential murder weapons says enough about your thought process. Especially since right here

you're directing contradicting yourself by saying that PEDs are indeed worst than weed because black boxers get away with the greater crime of PED use over Mexican fighters who simply get caught with THC in their system.

No one claimed it was a legitimate excuse. I only gave an example of someone who was playing between the lines and got punished. He lost several months of his life and another spot in history due to his decision.

There is no evidence to suggest that this was a recurring problem that has happened before or since and thus shouldn't ruin the man's life when the problem is clearly over. You will not find another person here who will take your stance on this.

Even though Margarito didn't use the wraps in the ring against Shane, he was going to. In addition there's the Cotto fight which does have some serious question marks surrounding it. Because we cannot answer what happened that night THAT is what shrouds Tony's career in doubt.

In this thread we've also more or less come to the consensus on why loaded gloves are a much more serious crime than PED use. I'll quote my own post.



I don't know why you're continually bringing the race issue into this discussion either. Sure, it has a place but if anything it makes YOU look more biased. Especially because you've brought it up unsolicited more than once.

You're naive to think it could be a harmless substance. Seriously? lol You talking about my thought process, yet you're not seeing the picture that both are ILLEGAL.

I'm not contradicting myself at all. PEDs just like weed is ILLEGAL(In most cases). Both have their medical reasons but are illegal in boxing just like in the real world.

No evidence that has happened before? He got busted twice for it. And how do you know that is a fact that any one here would disagree with me? Most with a brain know cheating is cheating.

And THAT is an opinion which shrouds the career of one person while the others are FACTS, yet they don't. You guys amaze me sometimes.

[takingaim]

I'd say hand wraps because you're doing it purely to do more damage to your opponent whereas with PEDs, you might be taking them to gain more stamina. Yes of course that can also result in doing more damage to your opponent but that's not the actual reason you're taking them. Hand wraps are sinister. Plaster wrapped around your knuckles, as hard as concrete... that's de****able. It should be a lifetime ban for hand wraps and at least a 5 year ban for PEDs.