Sonny Liston - great or ****e?

[leff]

liston is probably the most underrated hw ever period. his whole career is based on the ali fights. only ali would be able to take out prime liston. foreman didn't have the skills liston had, frazier had a bad style for liston and sonny would have no trouble taking him out, and shavers was not really a good boxer, just a heavy hitter, and sonny would ko him in two rounds or less. tyson is a joke compared to liston so enough said. liston is 32 on my all-time hw list, under ali.

uuuum i believe you ment 2 place not 32 place LOL

[butterfly1964]

uuuum i believe you ment 2 place not 32 place LOL

yeah, that was a typo.

[butterfly1964]

Tyson is a joke compared to Liston? Yeah whatever you say. Why is it that there is so little respect for professional prize fighters on here? You say Tyson is a joke, yet his accomplsihments stack up to the greatest of all time, and he deserves to be ranked along with them.

Liston was one of the greatest of all time end of story, and so for that matter is Tyson. What you people fail to realize is that the Alis, Listons, Fraziers, Tysons, Holmes, Foremans, Holyfields etc. are all GREAT! The MAJORITY of fighters don't even make a name for themselves, yet alone have a chance to be put into the ATG category. Thats how hard prizefighting is, so when you talk about the aforementioned fighters, they achieved a TON, way more than the average fighter.

Next time you call people bums or jokes think about what they accomplsihed and compare that to what most fighters accomplish.

i didn't say tyson was a joke. but i did say compared to liston, he is.

[butterfly1964]

Liston must have had something to be such a huge favourite to beat Ali?

that's because clay was a nobody before he fought liston.

[butterfly1964]

What i dont understand about liston isa some people say he was slow and clumsy and others say he was quick and powerful . Which was it ? .

liston haters would say he was clumsy. he wasn't very fast on his feet, but his punches were very quick, and he had tremendous coordination and defense. he's sort of like an upgrade of joe louis: bigger, stronger, more powerful, and a better chin.

[butterfly1964]

Liston is a disapointment to some who have only heard of his power, and then are surprised when they see some of his footage that he didn't rely on his power nearly as much as his reputation implies. The guy was much slower than most of his opponents as many of them only weighed 190 lbs., but he was technically sound and had a jab that landed like a ton of bricks. Foreman had the skills that Sonny had, but was much less diciplined in the ring and usually wouldn't stick to using them for more than a round or two, whereas Sonny would fight a whole fight behind the jab if he didn't get an opening. IMO Sonny is definitely underrated by most of the younger hard-core fans simply because they haven't seen his fights outside of the Clay and Patterson fights. CITA, I agree wholeheartedly that we do get carried away with the "bum" and "Joke" labels. These guys aren't bums, they beat bums to get to the level they achieved.
Edit: Just wanted to say that I can't get over how much bigger Liston was than Clay, despite only being announced as 8 lbs. heavier than Clay. If you watch their fights, there isn't a single part of Clay that appears as big as Liston's. I know Clay was an inch or two taller than Liston, but damn lol

he wasn't that much bigger than cassius clay. muhammad ali was a giant of a man himself. he was about 6'-3 1/2" weighed about 212 3/4lbs. and had an 83" reach in his prime.

[leff]

he is kinda like a skilled foreman

[catskills23]

he is kinda like a skilled foreman

in his youth were his hands much quicker than foremans ? . What great heavyweight would you say a young liston's handspeed was most comparable with ? .

[butterfly1964]

he is kinda like a skilled foreman

yeah, if foreman had liston's skills and handspeed, he would have a chance in beating prime muhammad ali!

[leff]

yeah, if foreman had liston's skills and handspeed, he would have a chance in beating prime muhammad ali!

if foreman had liston reach,speed and skill he would still be champion