Cuauhtemoc1520's take on Canelo vs Angulo

[deejd]

I believe that the contract weight was no more than 168 on fight day, which Canelo made. That night I think Angulo actually out weighed Canelo at 174lbs if I'm not mistaken.

I know Angulo was 174 on the unofficial scales against Lara, but I didn't see them post the weights going into the ring Saturday. Angulo looked pretty slender compared to what he usually does.

[deejd]

With all due respect to that dude Dwyer, I saw two of his videos and he doens't know much about boxing. I think he gets most his info from places like this, and doesn't actually know a lot about the sport.

I think this lack of stamina that Canelo has is way over done IMO. He could be in better shape, but he threw for 8 rounds hard and wasn't gassed. Only in the 9th and 10th did he really slow down, but because of his style, I don't think that's really going to affect him unless he faces a bigger pressure fighter.

160 is tough because Canelo is not a big 160 compared to some of the guys there. We will see, I just don't know how people just make these definitive statements when Canelo has grown leaps and bounds over the last 2 years and he's 23.

I think that's the point that was being made. Canelo moves, but he gives his opponent plenty of opportunities to get theirs. Nobody will ever mistake Canelo for Mayweather, Rigo, or any boxer that can stick and move. I actually thought Alvarez was starting to gas in the 4th and 5th. Angulo was walking him down more from that point on whereas in the first three, Alvarez was trading and pushing him back more.

Anyway, stamina is a real problem. Prime Martinez could stick and move. He was able to use his legs very well and never stand in one spot too long and if he did, he used great head movement and would change his levels. Could you imagine somebody like GGG who's able to apply effective pressure and continue walking downing naturally smaller/weaker opponents all while delivering offense of his own?

Can canelo be champ at 160? Sure, it all depends on the matchmaking.

[deejd]

true he can talk out of his ass at points but he knows his stuff.. he is wrong alot though. but i think it is interesting, no i dont think canelo stamina is as big a problem as some play it out to be but i can see where they're coming from. the angulo fight he looked better and in good shape, the big argument was whether or not canelo was dropping his hands and rolling with punches as a sign of fatigue, or just being flashy

It's amazing how his stamina issues are being 'over-emphasized' but he can't muster up the energy to make weight. He had trouble making '54 for Trout, he couldn't stand up at the weigh-ins for Mayweather, and he couldn't make the limit for Angulo. He was extremely effective bringing it to Angulo the first third of the fight and had he kept putting those combos on em, probably could have Kirkland him.... but started trying to get more distance as the fight wore on.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Who? I didn't see anybody talking about him trying to box and move and if they had I would have assumed they have no clue what they're talking about. Canelo is extremely flat footed and incapable of fighting that way under pressure. That's ridiculous.

How am I acting like he's a "come forward" fighter? That's the last thing Canelo is. If he was he would have given himself a much better chance of beating Mayweather and collapsed on him. Instead he stayed on the outside like a moron and tried to outbox a grandmaster like Floyd. I'll tell you how much of a "come forward" fighter he is; he can't come forward or doesn't know how.

Every trainer I talked to in every gym I frequented. The term "Toe to Toe" nobody was buying because they knew that was the best way for Angulo to win. Yet that's exactly what Canelo did.

Also, you contradicted yourself. You said that was the only thing he could do, yet you said he's not a come forward fighter? Which is it?

Canelo can do more than just counter punch, he can fight going backwards forwards and eveywhere in between.

He had no choice to do what he did vs Floyd because FLOYD dictated the pace, not him. That's what great fighters do.

[-Kev-]

Alvarez/Trout probably was fixed from the judge's standpoint, considering two of them had declared the fight over after 8 dead-even rounds.

You can join Daggum and I as well. Let me know what your username is.

But I meant Mayweather-Canelo, not Trout-Canelo.

[A-Wolf]

Every trainer I talked to in every gym I frequented. The term "Toe to Toe" nobody was buying because they new that was the best way for Angulo to win. Yet that's exactly what Canelo did.

Also, you contradicted yourself. You said that was the only thing he could do, yet you said he's not a come forward fighter? Which is it?

Canelo can do more than just counter punch, he can fight going backwards forwards and eveywhere in between.

He had no choice to do what he did vs Floyd because FLOYD dictated the pace, not him. That's what great fighters do.

Contradict? I said he had no choice but to "engage." You're trying to put words in my mouth. Also, I disagree with your appraisal of Canelo's dynamic range. You say he can fight "anywhere" I think that couldn't be further from the truth. His future fights will prove which one of us is wrong.

[TBear]

Respects Cuauhtémoc, I can agree with everything in your opening post except about the stoppage. Angulo was not getting hurt nor showing any signs of being in trouble. If getting hit was reason enough to stop a fight, Mayweather would be a ko artist.

With the heavyweight Russian going into a coma, boxing refs and officials I think will be more careful in allowing a fighter to take serious damage. Don't think I'm exaggerating when I say Tony Weeks might have saved Angulo's life, or at least his brain.

The Abdusalamov fight was a tragedy but I feel referees can't base all decisions on it. If so fights should be stopped before they start. Far too often we see referee's wave off fights prematurely and too often their standard reply is "better too early than too late". Though that is true, fighters are making a living at the sport of their choice, let them do it! Pacquiao was hitting Rios a lot more and with much harder punches than Canelo appears capable of and the referee let the Rios continue. Yes of course there is a risk but that is the nature of the game. Had the referee in the Pacquiao fight, Genaro Rodriguez, stopped the fight. I would probably have said the same thing even though he would have pointed out "better too early than too late", to which I would have said that that cliché would also apply if he stopped the fight during the introductions.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Respects Cuauhtémoc, I can agree with everything in your opening post except about the stoppage. Angulo was not getting hurt nor showing any signs of being in trouble. If getting hit was reason enough to stop a fight, Mayweather would be a ko artist.



The Abdusalamov fight was a tragedy but I feel referees can't base all decisions on it. If so fights should be stopped before they start. Far too often we see referee's wave off fights prematurely and too often their standard reply is "better too early than too late". Though that is true, fighters are making a living at the sport of their choice, let them do it! Pacquiao was hitting Rios a lot more and with much harder punches than Canelo appears capable of and the referee let the Rios continue. Yes of course there is a risk but that is the nature of the game. Had the referee in the Pacquiao fight, Genaro Rodriguez, stopped the fight. I would probably have said the same thing even though he would have pointed out "better too early than too late", to which I would have said that that cliché would also apply if he stopped the fight during the introductions.

Let me tell you why I disagree with you. If for example, you have a Gatti vs Ward type fight where both fighters are receiving incredible punishment, then it's part of the dangers of the sport.

Either man could have ended up in a coma, and that's the type of results we have to live with in this sport.

With Angulo though, he wasn't fighting back man. He was target practice, I re-watched the fight and the notion that it was fixed or that he was even competitive is absurd. The man was getting hit with clean shot after clean shot and wasn't responding.

It was a one sided beating that doesn't need to go on because he's not showing that he can come back and win the fight. Even if in boxing you are one punch away, you have to show you are at least competitive.

It was a great stoppage and with no exaggeration, Weeks might have saved Angulo's future.

Past fights can't be taken in consideration because I think refs and boxing in general is more conscious of protecting fighters and they should be. We don't need to see a death on a major PPV, it would literally ruin boxing.

[KING MEAT]

sorry but sharkeisha hit harder than angulo


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[Doctor_Tenma]

Also, look at 2:20 of round Mosley vs Margarito, I only remember vaguely but I looked the youtube video now. Look at 2:20, Mosley lands a left hook that makes Margarito stumble back a little and look how his behavior changes after that. But for like the first 40 seconds of the round, Margarito was active and throwing. The left hook changed his mind about trading with Mosley. It was the beginning of the end since round 1 n that fight. Mosley's body punching against Marg was brutal as well. Look at Margarito's pity pat punches as the rounds go on, because of those body punches. I saw nothing different, extraordinary, or unusual in the Canelo-Angulo fight. It was a very similar fight to Mosley-Margarito.

Great example Kev, how could I forget about that fight?!