Is Joe Frazier really an ATG?

[Elroy1]

Don't bite the bait! Don't bite the bait! There's a hook under there!

**** off ******!

[champion4ever]

Don't get me wrong I respect the guy for his toughness and heart but is he really an all time great?

He's known for getting absolutely destroyed by George Foreman and for losing a trilogy to Muhammad Ali, probably the greatest HW of all times.

I know he did beat Ali once but that's it, he lost to "The Greatest" two times. Of course it's not a shame to lose a fight to Muhammad Ali.

But, lets be honest here, winning one fight against coming back from 4 year break Ali is not enough to be considered an ATG.

Dude, yes he is an all-time great. I don't know how anyone in their right mind who claim to be a scholar and fan of the sport could question his rightful legendary place in the boxing game.

As opposed to the Klitschkos who have been knocked out by journeymen, paper champions and fringe contenders in the weakest era that the heavyweight division has ever produced; However, Joe Frazier on the other hand had fought in perhaps the toughest era of any heavyweight division in boxing history. The Golden era of the 1960s and 1970s where all the opponents were evenly matched against each other and he walked away from it with just four career losses and against only two opponents. One which was arguably the greatest heavyweight champion of all-time in Muhammad Ali and the other against another all-time great champion in George Foreman.

Again, I just can't see how any true boxing fan can even question Joe Frazier's greatness and career achievements.

[Weltschmerz]

Dude, yes he is an all-time great. I don't know how anyone in their right mind who claim to be a scholar and fan of the sport could question his rightful legendary place in the boxing game.

As opposed to the Klitschkos who have been knocked out by journeymen, paper champions and fringe contenders in the weakest era that the heavyweight division has ever produced; However, Joe Frazier on the other hand had fought in perhaps the toughest era of any heavyweight division in boxing history. The Golden era of the 1960s and 1970s where all the opponents were evenly matched against each other and he walked away from it with just four career losses. With one being against arguably the greatest heavyweight champion of all-time in Muhammad Ali and also against another all-time great champion in George Foreman.

Again, I just can't see how any true boxing fan can even question Joe Frazier's greatness and career achievements.

The only thing he has really going for him is the first Ali fight.

Other than that, his career is pretty mediocre. He wasn't dominating as a champion, and doesn't have other impressive wins.

If anything, Frazier showed that Ali is overrated.

[Elroy1]

Dude, yes he is an all-time great. I don't know how anyone in their right mind who claim to be a scholar and fan of the sport could question his rightful legendary place in the boxing game.

As opposed to the Klitschkos who have been knocked out by journeymen, paper champions and fringe contenders in the weakest era that the heavyweight division has ever produced; However, Joe Frazier on the other hand had fought in perhaps the toughest era of any heavyweight division in boxing history. The Golden era of the 1960s and 1970s where all the opponents were evenly matched against each other and he walked away from it with just four career losses and against only two opponents. One which was arguably the greatest heavyweight champion of all-time in Muhammad Ali and the other against another all-time great champion in George Foreman.

Again, I just can't see how any true boxing fan can even question Joe Frazier's greatness and career achievements.

ONE of the opponents who knocked Klitschko out was a journeyman.

And that journeyman would have pulverised Frazier so badly he'll wish he never took up boxing!

The other 2 were champion boxers who would have annihilated the entire 70's HW division.

One of which, Lamon Brewster was American and would have been heralded as the greatest fighter who ever lived and probably ever will.

If Lamon Brewster was inserted into the 70's, he would be the "greatest" and hardly any HW's would ever WANT to take up professional boxing.

Fact!

[Elroy1]

Basically when you claim Frazier as an ATG, you are only making that claim against the criteria of his day.

Today, Frazier's record at HW would only be 13-4.

Today, we would call such a fighter a total bum.

But it's worse, Frazier could never pad his record today against such terrible opposition, the opponents are not just stronger but far more skilled and far more athletic on average than Frazier's opponents ever were.

So in reality he could probably not even win a fight at HW anymore.

I prefer the term OTG.. "One Time Great"

Even still, against the criteria of his own era, who did he beat? Muhammad Ali, the most overrated boxer in history and another who would be nothing much more than an easy KO for any serious HW.

Other than that he is famous only for getting pulverised by George Foreman 2ce an aggressive opponent who had a big punch but who could barely even BOX at that time!

There is good reason to want to doubt him even historically s an ATG!

[champion4ever]

The only thing he has really going for him is the first Ali fight.

Other than that, his career is pretty mediocre. He wasn't dominating as a champion, and doesn't have other impressive wins.

If anything, Frazier showed that Ali is overrated.

Joe Frazier defeated a lot of good fighters in his career; Including a lot of contenders and former champions like: Former WBA champion Jimmy Ellis (Muhammad Ali's former sparring partner), Buster Mathis, Oscar Bonavena, Jerry Quarry, former Light heavyweight champion Bob Foster, former British Commonwealth and British champion and three time European champion Joe Bugner and also George Chuvalo.

All of the men I mentioned on his resume could fight and were more than worthy opponents for him and most were hotly contested bouts also.

[IronDanHamza]

Was it really billed as that?

Because I always thought it got labelled that after?

Not saying your wrong, just I'm not the only one who'se figured this.

Yes, it always always billed as that.

I thought you would have known that.

[BKM-2010]

Certified ATG, HOFer and one of the biggest names the sport of boxing will ever produce. But I rank him just outside the top 10 and I believe most people do as well, but that's not exactly a slight towards him either.

[champion4ever]

ONE of the opponents who knocked Klitschko out was a journeyman.

And that journeyman would have pulverised Frazier so badly he'll wish he never took up boxing!

The other 2 were champion boxers who would have annihilated the entire 70's HW division.

One of which, Lamon Brewster was American and would have been heralded as the greatest fighter who ever lived and probably ever will.

If Lamon Brewster was inserted into the 70's, he would be the "greatest" and hardly any HW's would ever WANT to take up professional boxing.

Fact!

Please! if Joe had fought in this current and weakest of Heavyweight boxing eras he would have retired and undefeated champion.

[Elroy1]

Joe Frazier defeated a lot of good fighters in his career; Including a lot of contenders and former champions like: Former WBA champion Jimmy Ellis (Muhammad Ali's former sparring partner), Buster Mathis, Oscar Bonavena, Jerry Quarry, former Light heavyweight champion Bob Foster, former British Commonwealth and British champion and three time European champion Joe Bugner and also George Chuvalo.

All of the men I mentioned on his resume could fight and were more than worthy opponents for him and most were hotly contested bouts also.

your an old fool, fully exposed!

Ellis was a chinny featherfist and a cruiser.
Buster Mathis was a bloated fat ass! Who Frazier only won against because Buster had never had to drug his fat butt around for so many rounds before.
Bonavena was a cruiser bum
Quarry was a natural light HW runner who looked like he needed a sandwich not a fight
Bob Foster was again a tiny boxer with no relevance as a HW whatsoever
Joe Bugner was the very definition of a slow plodder with no skills at all
And George Chuvalo was nothing but a chin on legs, and that's a point of contention too because the only time he ever met what we would today consider a hard puncher in Foreman he was stopped in 2.5 rounds. His chin is totally untested against real hitters.

Muhammad Ali was a featherfist plodder who had no reflexes whatsoever and only survived opponents by hugging them and allowing them to punch themselves out on his head and body.

This masterful strategy only works against guys like Frazier who don't have any skills or any power and are 5'10" tall and 210lbs fat!

So basically, Frazier's entire career sucked!