Is Joe Frazier really an ATG?

[M Bison]

What are you talking about? Frazier beat Muhammad Ali when he was undefeated + gave him the fights of his life twice. When had Wlad ever come close to doing such a thing?

You say he was defeated when he came up against the best, well, except for the first Ali fight - that's fair enough - but the losses came against two certified ATGs and two top 10 heavies of all times! In comparison, Wlad's 3 KO losses has come against journeymen.

Mike Bruce knocked Frazier down? Clapping my hands at your reading of boxrec. My reading will tell me Wlad was knocked down 12 times in his career! Against who, you ask? Wow, let's take a look... Steve Pannell knocked him down in the first round. Ross Purrity (13 losses at the time) knocked him down before stopping him.

Corrie Sanders (part time golfer) threw him around like a ragdoll, and funnily enough - stopped him in similar fashion as Foreman did Frazier. Sanders ended up dropping Klitschko 4 times before the world had seen enough and put a halt to this beat down taking place.

Another world beater, Lamon Brewster, dropped him for the 7th and 8th time in his career - but we'll excuse those - because Wlad was so clearly drugged.

World beater, Davarryl Williamson, thought he'd seen an opening when he flattened Wlad in the 4th round of their fight.

Then ATG Sam Peter put him on the floor for the 10th, 11th and 12th time of his career.

Are you sure you still want to mention Frazier's single knockdown?

Yes, Frazier and Lennox are on par for me, but I would probably choose Frazier if I had to.

And both are clearly higher than Wladimir.

Once again, still waiting for an educated response.

Give me a breakdown of resume's.




Fixed it for you.

Once again I've already prove my point other than him beating Muhammad Ali suffering from a huge lay off who else is notable?
Nobody and the majority of the people he fought he was getting knocked down and having wars with people a world class HW would of dominated.

Wladimirs losses came in at the time he wasn't at his prime but he has slowly but surely fine tuned his boxing skills and is on task to likely beating Joe Louis longest HW reign.
The idiots that over-exaggerate Joe Frazier resume its funny, who else other than his lucky win over Muhammad Ali?
Jerry Quarry?
Who else... All the guys he beat were previously beat before and finished with over 10-20 losses, he padded his career it had nothing to do with the fact the HW division was that competitive it just had a lack of real dominating figures.

So go pull yourself a tissue out and cry some more how you long for nostalgia because none of those guys back in those day apart from Ali or Foreman would of stood a chance.

Oscar Bonavena - Decked twice by him and the judges robbed Oscar and Oscar was seen as an over the hill HW at that time lol!!
Mike Bruce - Decked in the first round by a complete bum who has more losses than wins hahaha!!

Difference between Wlad and Joe is Wlad doesn't need gift decisions he either loses by getting knocked out (early in his career) whereas Joe needs to rob fighters, get knocked down by average fighters and then gets completely outclassed when he fights someone good.

Great boxers improve not remain the same... for god sake Joe struggled with Floyd Cummings lmao!!

[LacedUp]

I think you're exaggerating a little bit.



The K'bros should be higher on your ATG list then what you have them at, IMO

You don't know where I have them though?

Wlad is top 10-15 for me, Vitali is top 20.

Wlad is an ATG in my book, but he's not higher than Frazier.

[M Bison]

I think you're exaggerating a little bit.



The K'bros should be higher on your ATG list then what you have them at, IMO

Don't let a bunch of hyped up fools who glorify a past as much serious than the modern era simply because the Klitschko's are so dominant.
If it was a black or an American HW at the top it'd be a completely different story, people just want to hate for the sake of it but when you throw it back in their faces they throw a little strop like an immature child and try to claim you're "trolling"... Whilst in truth the only trolls are the people who can't look at both sides of the coin.

If Klitschko brothers aren't good then Joe Frazier must be a bum.

[LacedUp]

Once again I've already prove my point other than him beating Muhammad Ali suffering from a huge lay off who else is notable?
Nobody and the majority of the people he fought he was getting knocked down and having wars with people a world class HW would of dominated.

Wladimirs losses came in at the time he wasn't at his prime but he has slowly but surely fine tuned his boxing skills and is on task to likely beating Joe Louis longest HW reign.
The idiots that over-exaggerate Joe Frazier resume its funny, who else other than his lucky win over Muhammad Ali?
Jerry Quarry?
Who else... All the guys he beat were previously beat before and finished with over 10-20 losses, he padded his career it had nothing to do with the fact the HW division was that competitive it just had a lack of real dominating figures.

So go pull yourself a tissue out and cry some more how you long for nostalgia because none of those guys back in those day apart from Ali or Foreman would of stood a chance.

Oscar Bonavena - Decked twice by him and the judges robbed Oscar and Oscar was seen as an over the hill HW at that time lol!!
Mike Bruce - Decked in the first round by a complete bum who has more losses than wins hahaha!!

Difference between Wlad and Joe is Wlad doesn't need gift decisions he either loses by getting knocked out (early in his career) whereas Joe needs to rob fighters, get knocked down by average fighters and then gets completely outclassed when he fights someone good.

Great boxers improve not remain the same... for god sake Joe struggled with Floyd Cummings lmao!!

First off, let's get it right. Muhammad Ali is by far, by far the best win on either guy's resume. Wlad doesn't have anything that even comes remotely close to that win. Don't try to downplay it because you will look like an idiot.

Second off, Frazier has more #1 ranked wins than Wlad.

Bonavena twice, Quarry twice, Ellis twice, Mathis, Bob Foster, Chuvalo, Ali etc- he only lost to two of the greatest heavyweights of all times.

You want to excuse Wlad's losses, but bring up that Frazier took a KD in his second fight? - Jesus, you really don't know what you're doing, do you?

If you really want to get down to it, Frazier was getting older when he fought Foreman the first time, and was considered shot when he fought Ali the 3rd and Foreman the 2nd time.

He had a shorter reign than Wlad, but unlike Wlad, he fought the best time after time.

And are you making out that it's better to get knocked out than to win by a close decision? Seriously man, get your act together.

You are literally embarrassing yourself.

Frazier has ATGs and HOFamers on his resume and has only lost to two ATGs.

Wlad doesn't have any current or future HOFamers or ATGs on his resume and was knocked out by Journeymen.

[jtcs1981]

He ducked Rocky and Apollo Creed

[LacedUp]

Don't let a bunch of hyped up fools who glorify a past as much serious than the modern era simply because the Klitschko's are so dominant.
If it was a black or an American HW at the top it'd be a completely different story, people just want to hate for the sake of it but when you throw it back in their faces they throw a little strop like an immature child and try to claim you're "trolling"... Whilst in truth the only trolls are the people who can't look at both sides of the coin.

If Klitschko brothers aren't good then Joe Frazier must be a bum.

At least Joe Frazier didn't get knocked out by a guy with 13 losses.

[M Bison]

At least Joe Frazier didn't get knocked out by a guy with 13 losses.

No he just got flat out dominated by a guy who never even at the time was taking boxing seriously lmao!
Whilst a great definitely, Foreman wasn't that interested and he made that well documented yet that was enough to beat an ATG?
SURELY NOT?!?!?

First off, let's get it right. Muhammad Ali is by far, by far the best win on either guy's resume. Wlad doesn't have anything that even comes remotely close to that win. Don't try to downplay it because you will look like an idiot.

Second off, Frazier has more #1 ranked wins than Wlad.

Bonavena twice, Quarry twice, Ellis twice, Mathis, Bob Foster, Chuvalo, Ali etc- he only lost to two of the greatest heavyweights of all times.

You want to excuse Wlad's losses, but bring up that Frazier took a KD in his second fight? - Jesus, you really don't know what you're doing, do you?

If you really want to get down to it, Frazier was getting older when he fought Foreman the first time, and was considered shot when he fought Ali the 3rd and Foreman the 2nd time.

He had a shorter reign than Wlad, but unlike Wlad, he fought the best time after time.

And are you making out that it's better to get knocked out than to win by a close decision? Seriously man, get your act together.

You are literally embarrassing yourself.

Muhammad Ali with a huge lay-off is a better win on paper but it isn't impressive for the fact he had a huge lay-off and the fight could of easily been scored towards Ali.
I can downplay it and I will because both times when he fought an active Muhammad Ali he got made to look like an absolute fool in the ring then getting slapped about by Foreman, like a man against a child....

Joe Frazier was barely a heavyweight and he wouldn't last against the modern big guys, too slow and massively overrated pity it can't be proven but even an idiot like you will know boxing is a subjective sport.

I'm not making myself look like an idiot, I never rooted and claimed David Haye would beat Klitschko lmao!
The best time after time??!?!?!?!
WHAAAAAAAAAAT!!!
Who are these so called best omg you're an absolute spanner!!

[Weltschmerz]

I believe it's OK to think Frazier is an ATG heavy due to his win over Ali and his place in history at the time, but as I mentioned previously in this thread his resume is lacking ATG quality to say the least; outside Ali, he didn't fight and beat the top dogs of his era, something you usually consider when talking ATG. His career is quite mediocre, aside from the Ali win (Ali wasn't even in his prime anymore, too).

You guys wearing rose-tinted glasses when it comes to Frazier should cool it a bit. Frazier is pretty overrated in general, however much you think of his Ali trilogy career. Add his three KO losses to this, and you can see how overblown the praise for him is.

[The Big Dunn]

If Joe Frazier came in wlad's package-he'd still be held in the same regard. If wladimir came in joe frazier's package-most of the posters that speak so highly of him wouldn't.

[LacedUp]

No he just got flat out dominated by a guy who never even at the time was taking boxing seriously lmao!
Whilst a great definitely, Foreman wasn't that interested and he made that well documented yet that was enough to beat an ATG?
SURELY NOT?!?!?



Muhammad Ali with a huge lay-off is a better win on paper but it isn't impressive for the fact he had a huge lay-off and the fight could of easily been scored towards Ali.
I can downplay it and I will because both times when he fought an active Muhammad Ali he got made to look like an absolute fool in the ring then getting slapped about by Foreman, like a man against a child....

Joe Frazier was barely a heavyweight and he wouldn't last against the modern big guys, too slow and massively overrated pity it can't be proven but even an idiot like you will know boxing is a subjective sport.

I'm not making myself look like an idiot, I never rooted and claimed David Haye would beat Klitschko lmao!
The best time after time??!?!?!?!
WHAAAAAAAAAAT!!!
Who are these so called best omg you're an absolute spanner!!

OK I now know you haven't watched the fights, therefore no nothing about the topic and bringing our discussion to an end.

Yeah, Frazier is waaaay too slow for the Wachs, Thompsons, Arreolas, Mormecks, Peters of today's fabulous heavyweight divison

Haha.