Is Joe Frazier really an ATG?

[Suckmedry]

Weltschmerz and some others are killing me reading this thread. I can't be bothered quoting some of the lines but i was flat out laughing, you would think these guys are trolls but there regular posters

[Holywarrior]

A top 100 fighter? Probably not. Got waxed up bad by Foreman. Missed out on Norton. He did beat Ali though which is a great win. When you beat the best heavyweight ever, combined with your record, I'd say yes at the end of it all.

[LacedUp]

Do you think Lennox Lewis deserved to rank higher than Joe Frazier?

Wladimir Klitschko undoubtedly deserves to rank higher than Joe!
You can name opponents and say he's lost to this guy and that guy but fact is the guys Joe Frazier beat were hardly that impressive and whenever he did come up against anyone great he either A got decesively outboxed or flat out KO'ed and at times he had wars with people who weren't even that good!

Mike Bruce for example, he knocks Joe Frazier down and he undoubtedly is a complete bum... Joe Frazier had entertaining fights but he never was dominant and he always looked suspect doing the simple little things right always getting tagged and dropped, If he fought a Klitschko HE WOULDN'T be allowed to do that as he'd be finished as quickly as Foreman got done with him.

End of the day Wladimir is breaking historical records in the heavyweight division what has Joe Frazier broke?
Other than being bitterly butthurt that Muhammad Ali was miles better than him and the only win over Ali he has is Ali coming back from a big lay-off, he is overrated!

What are you talking about? Frazier beat Muhammad Ali when he was undefeated + gave him the fights of his life twice. When had Wlad ever come close to doing such a thing?

You say he was defeated when he came up against the best, well, except for the first Ali fight - that's fair enough - but the losses came against two certified ATGs and two top 10 heavies of all times! In comparison, Wlad's 3 KO losses has come against journeymen.

Mike Bruce knocked Frazier down? Clapping my hands at your reading of boxrec. My reading will tell me Wlad was knocked down 12 times in his career! Against who, you ask? Wow, let's take a look... Steve Pannell knocked him down in the first round. Ross Purrity (13 losses at the time) knocked him down before stopping him.

Corrie Sanders (part time golfer) threw him around like a ragdoll, and funnily enough - stopped him in similar fashion as Foreman did Frazier. Sanders ended up dropping Klitschko 4 times before the world had seen enough and put a halt to this beat down taking place.

Another world beater, Lamon Brewster, dropped him for the 7th and 8th time in his career - but we'll excuse those - because Wlad was so clearly drugged.

World beater, Davarryl Williamson, thought he'd seen an opening when he flattened Wlad in the 4th round of their fight.

Then ATG Sam Peter put him on the floor for the 10th, 11th and 12th time of his career.

Are you sure you still want to mention Frazier's single knockdown?

Yes, Frazier and Lennox are on par for me, but I would probably choose Frazier if I had to.

And both are clearly higher than Wladimir.

Once again, still waiting for an educated response.

Give me a breakdown of resume's.

Well put. People need to remove their rose-tinted glasses when it comes to Wladimir and ATG talk.

Fixed it for you.

[Wesker115]

What Frazier really has going for him, which, imo isn't really taken into account enough when discussing other great fighters, is that his only defeats were to ATG's.

He has no outliers or anomalies. No bum caught him with a lucky punch. We can't really say the same for the likes of Lennox Lewis and Wlad. So credit to Joe for this, after all, he fought in the best era for heavyweight boxing as well.

[Holywarrior]

With respect to Wlad he doesn't have a win as good as Jerry Quarry let alone Muhammad Ali.

[yoz]

What are you talking about? Frazier beat Muhammad Ali when he was undefeated + gave him the fights of his life twice. When had Wlad ever come close to doing such a thing?

You say he was defeated when he came up against the best, well, except for the first Ali fight - that's fair enough - but the losses came against two certified ATGs and two top 10 heavies of all times! In comparison, Wlad's 3 KO losses has come against journeymen.

Mike Bruce knocked Frazier down? Clapping my hands at your reading of boxrec. My reading will tell me Wlad was knocked down 12 times in his career! Against who, you ask? Wow, let's take a look... Steve Pannell knocked him down in the first round. Ross Purrity (13 losses at the time) knocked him down before stopping him.

Corrie Sanders (part time golfer) threw him around like a ragdoll, and funnily enough - stopped him in similar fashion as Foreman did Frazier. Sanders ended up dropping Klitschko 4 times before the world had seen enough and put a halt to this beat down taking place.

Another world beater, Lamon Brewster, dropped him for the 7th and 8th time in his career - but we'll excuse those - because Wlad was so clearly drugged.

World beater, Davarryl Williamson, thought he'd seen an opening when he flattened Wlad in the 4th round of their fight.

Then ATG Sam Peter put him on the floor for the 10th, 11th and 12th time of his career.

Are you sure you still want to mention Frazier's single knockdown?

Yes, Frazier and Lennox are on par for me, but I would probably choose Frazier if I had to.

And both are clearly higher than Wladimir.

Once again, still waiting for an educated response.

Give me a breakdown of resume's.




Fixed it for you.

Sanders headbutted Wlad. It was that, rather than a clean shot, that shook him up.

Brewster is a better example.

[King_]

All I know is wherever Frazier is on someone's ATG list, Wlad should be about 10+ spots higher.


Based on the "eye test" alone, Vitali as well

[LacedUp]

Sanders headbutted Wlad. It was that, rather than a clean shot, that shook him up.

Brewster is a better example.

Come on.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Sanders was cathing him with right jabs and landed a few straight lefts before they got into a clinch and his head glanced Wlad's chin. That happens every fight.

Even Wlad says the reason he lost was lack of focus.

I'll take that over any headbutt excuse.

[LacedUp]

All I know is wherever Frazier is on someone's ATG list, Wlad should be about 10+ spots higher.


Based on the "eye test" alone, Vitali as well

All I know is wherever someone posts on a boxing forum, they should sig your gems on heavyweight boxing.

[King_]

All I know is wherever someone posts on a boxing forum, they should sig your gems on heavyweight boxing.

I think you're exaggerating a little bit.



The K'bros should be higher on your ATG list then what you have them at, IMO