would Greb is p4p number 1?

[Ljc]

SRL has wins over prime ATGs duran, benitez, hagler, and ended the reign of hagler,,,,
Short career but did more than other guys can only imagine and was a true warrior.
His win over hearns is arguably the greatest welter defense of all time


Yes he is near, the guy was amazing, fought everyone, and was virtually unbeatable in his prime in a very deep era.. p4p he is one of the greatest ever, and h2h he would school alot of great fighters.. hell a cracked out old pernell nearly beat a prime oscar

Pernell is one of the best to ever lace them up IMO

I dont mind if you dont think top 10, but he is certainly a lock for top 20.



False

I agree with everything you say regarding SRL, just think there are more than 10 fights with more/better achievements than him. I got him in top 20/25

[edgarg]

guy asked for footage so i posted footage..if you have better footage feel free to post it

You can see that it was just fooling around for the cmera. After about 45 secs you can see Greb dropping his hands and looking at the camera, obviously asking "is this enough".

[JAB5239]

Langford
Greb
SRR
Armstrong

Those are my top 4, after that the order changes around a bit time to time.

[Ham Porter]

I agree with everything you say regarding SRL, just think there are more than 10 fights with more/better achievements than him. I got him in top 20/25

The problem with Leonard and any fighter of the last fifty years is that, in terms of sheer depth, their resume is lacking in comparison to the standout fighters from the 30's-50's, who fought opposition of similar quality like a Benitez, Duran or Hearns and did so in a series of fights.



I feel the same way about Heavyweight greats like Louis and Ali. You can't put these guys at the same level as fighters who were great in more than just one weight class. Fighters like Armstrong, Robinson, Greb, Langford and Charles are in a different class.

[edgarg]

I usually rate greb in the top 10, somewhere around 6 or 7,, him and langford i switch back in forth...

1. SRR
2. ALi
3. Armstrong
4. SRL
5. Ezzard
6. Greb
7. Langford
8. Louis
9. Duran
10. Pernell

I'd drop Leonard, Charles, Langford and Whitaker. I'd add Benny Leonard at #2, Jack Johnson at #3, Louis @#4, Greb @#5, Armstrong @#6, Ali @7, and Nicolino Locche @#10. I'd have Holyfield in there somewhere, Eder Jofre and Roy Jones hanging around the outskirts along with the two Klitschko brothers, and Carlos Zarate.

There are 20-30 who coulh credibly take up the last 3-5 places..

[Larry the boss]

I'd drop Leonard, Charles, Langford and Whitaker. I'd add Benny Leonard at #2, Jack Johnson at #3, Louis @#4, Greb @#5, Armstrong @#6, Ali @7, and Nicolino Locche @#10. I'd have Holyfield in there somewhere, and Roy Jones hanging around the outskirts along with the two Klitschko brothers.

There aret 20-30 who coulh credibly take up the last 3 places..

Why would Nicolino Locche be top 10??? sure he had great defense but who did he exactly beat? and the 2 Klit bros??are you ****ing serious?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

The problem with Leonard and any fighter of the last fifty years is that, in terms of sheer depth, their resume is lacking in comparison to the standout fighters from the 30's-50's, who fought opposition of similar quality like a Benitez, Duran or Hearns and did so in a series of fights.



I feel the same way about Heavyweight greats like Louis and Ali. You can't put these guys at the same level as fighters who were great in more than just one weight class. Fighters like Armstrong, Robinson, Greb, Langford and Charles are in a different class.

I see your point but realize that guys dont fight every other week like they did back then,,, With the expansion of television you really only get one shot or maybe a trilogy,,, look at manny-jmm, they have given us 4 great fights and people whine about having to see a 5th, but if it was 70 years ago, jmm and manny would have fought about 8 times...

Who in the 40s beat guys like ATG benetiz for welter belt, nearly prime duran, and made him quit, and defeated the monster that was hearns,,, all in about 2 years time, plus he beat ayublu for the jr mid belt in a tune-up fight,,

SRL career was short but his accomplishments are amazing if you consider that he beat 4 top 100 fighters of all time, and 2 being at their peak, one being near prime, and one being the middleweight kingpin

i don't have a ton of issues with the top 25-50 but 10 is way, way too high.


hagler also was definitely past his prime when leonard fought him. it's an odd case, because leonard himself was so far gone and coming off of a layoff, but that's doesn't mean we credit him for a prime hagler when hagler clearly wasn't still prime.

Hagler and SRL were both past primes,,, but the fact remains that nobody had ended hagler's reign till SRL did,,,
Do you give jermain taylor credit for beating hopkins, or tarver beating roy,, they were past their primes but still the man,,
and as the great ric flair says "TO BE THE MAN YOU GOT TO BEAT THE MAN"

SRL was also a huge underdog in this fight, and lots of people thought hagler would kill him,,, but revisionist history will tell you that hagler was shot and old

[soul_survivor]

I'd drop Leonard, Charles, Langford and Whitaker. I'd add Benny Leonard at #2, Jack Johnson at #3, Louis @#4, Greb @#5, Armstrong @#6, Ali @7, and Nicolino Locche @#10. I'd have Holyfield in there somewhere, Eder Jofre and Roy Jones hanging around the outskirts along with the two Klitschko brothers, and Carlos Zarate.

There are 20-30 who coulh credibly take up the last 3-5 places..

Louis, JJ and Benny Leonard above Ali? Locche above Duran???

You mention RJJ, Zarate and the Klits but no Hagler, Leonard or Chavez Sr?

Be real fam

[way2strong]

I see your point but realize that guys dont fight every other week like they did back then,,, With the expansion of television you really only get one shot or maybe a trilogy,,, look at manny-jmm, they have given us 4 great fights and people whine about having to see a 5th, but if it was 70 years ago, jmm and manny would have fought about 8 times...

Who in the 40s beat guys like ATG benetiz for welter belt, nearly prime duran, and made him quit, and defeated the monster that was hearns,,, all in about 2 years time, plus he beat ayublu for the jr mid belt in a tune-up fight,,

SRL career was short but his accomplishments are amazing if you consider that he beat 4 top 100 fighters of all time, and 2 being at their peak, one being near prime, and one being the middleweight kingpin



Hagler and SRL were both past primes,,, but the fact remains that nobody had ended hagler's reign till SRL did,,,
Do you give jermain taylor credit for beating hopkins, or tarver beating roy,, they were past their primes but still the man,,
and as the great ric flair says "TO BE THE MAN YOU GOT TO BEAT THE MAN"

SRL was also a huge underdog in this fight, and lots of people thought hagler would kill him,,, but revisionist history will tell you that hagler was shot and old

do you ***ing ******ed black panthers forget that duran won the first fight and only quit the 2nd because he was out of shape and srl admitted he knew this reason why he asked for a rematch

edit: el gran campeon would have beat alot of the guys before the 1970's

[Sugar Adam Ali]

do you ***ing ******ed black panthers forget that duran won the first fight and only quit the 2nd because he was out of shape and srl admitted he knew this reason why he asked for a rematch

lmao off you idiot,,, im about as white as you can get,,, dont get it twisted cuz i got a black guys nickname and last name in my username, and just because i rate SRL highly....
Race aint got nothing to do with how i rate guys

Did you notice that i have duran top 10 as well,,,,

You can make the excuse about the quick rematch, but then i can just say SRL was ****** in the first fight and just should have boxed duran's ears off instead of going toe-2-toe in a slugfest