Is Lennox Lewis considered an 'ATG Heavyweight'? This person says no.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Part of what I look at are the intangibles. Not only did Lewis fight great comp, he fought every threat they put in front of him. Lewis never backed down from a fight.....in addition to the guys who were considered serious threats, guys like Golata, Morrison, Briggs, he fought guys like Mccall and Mercer.

The intangible is that the Klits always seem able to duck guys like Fury, Ruiz, etc.... Lewis fought those guys in addition to guys he had to fight. He was a nuch better fighter than the Vitali fight indicated. he had trained for a scrub and took that fight last minute and he paid a dear price for it. If he had trained properly that fight would have shown him dominating Vitali....he beat Vitali at his very worse!

Lewis had holes but was really very very good. He was exactly what an undisputed ATG should look like.

I think you make legit points, but i dont think klits dodged ruiz, fury, etc...

I think klits have fought anyone willing to fight,,, fury just now in the past year has become a legit contender,, let him beat haye, and fury will land a klit in 2014..
Don king controlled ruiz and wasnt letting anyone fight his champs at the time unless he got options,, hence why ruiz, never defended except for don king guys like fres, golata, etc.....

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

Lewis is top 5, no doubt.

[B-Bomber]

Only heavys to beat him h2h would be ali and holmes......

Lewis would crush louis..

The thing about lewis is that he never lost a huge big fight,,, his only losses were supposed "soft touches" in mccall and rahman,,,, Lewis avenged both and utterly brutalized rahman in their rematch

what is most impressive about lewis is that he destroyed guys,, not just beat them, but destroyed them...

Razor ruddock- Uncrowned champ after the tyson wars, Lewis blows him out in 2
Bruno gave him hell and was winning but lewis showed one punch power and changed the fight.
Ko'd Golata in 90 seconds, when golata had just gone to war with bowe and considered a top heavy
Ko'd Morrison in 5
beat mercer but that was a great close fight and could have gone either way
Beat the hell out of a prime akinwande and destroyed his hype
Beat up lineal champ prime Shannon Briggs
Beat up holyfield twice
Bowe wouldnt fight him, he had already stopped bowe for the gold medal in the 88 olympics
Destroyed micheal grant in 2 when grant was massively hyped
Beat a prime Tua
Ko'd rahman in the rematch
Stopped a cracked out mccall in the rematch
Destroyed tyson
Stopped Vitali

Retired as reigning undisputed Lineal Heavyweight champ with a gold medal

Not too shabby

Ruddock was a good contender, never a champ. Has been knocked down and out before and after Lewis.

Bruno I liked Bruno, but he had been knocked out by Bonecrusher Smith, Whiterspoon and Tyson prior to Lewis. The fact that Bruno was ahead on the cards is way more surprising than Lewis knocking him out.

Golota You gotta be kidding me, top heavy?. what's Golota's best win, Po'uha?. He was known because he repeatedly punched Bowe in the nuts more than else.

Akinwande Beat the hell?. Akinwande was disqualified for excessive holding, it was no thrilla in Manilla.

Shannon Briggs the lineal champion, yes, for one fight. After winning a mixed decision against a 42 years old Foreman.

McCall in the rematch McCall refused to fight in rounds 4 and 5, causing the referee to stop the fight. McCall wasn't getting beaten, the first 3 rounds were all competitive.

[Tyson] ... what version of Tyson ...

That said, I don't mind seeing Lewis in a top 10 HW ATG , he is in the mix, but it seems to me you are exaggerating his resume.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Ruddock was a good contender, never a champ. Has been knocked down and out before and after Lewis.
Ruddock had two wars with tyson and coming down to the ring HBO was hyping him as the uncrowned champ,, Lewis destroyed him in about 200 seconds, something that tyson couldnt do the year before
Bruno I liked Bruno, but he had been knocked out by Bonecrusher Smith, Whiterspoon and Tyson prior to Lewis. The fact that Bruno was ahead on the cards is way more surprising than Lewis knocking him out.
Bruno is no ATG but he was a very good contender and it was a huge british fight and Lewis showed he was legit.. Bruno would comeback and win a belt so he wasnt a total bum

Golota You gotta be kidding me, top heavy?. what's Golota's best win, Po'uha?. He was known because he repeatedly punched Bowe in the nuts more than else.
Yes golata was crazy but he had just beaten down rid**** bowe twice and was basically undefeated except for the bonehead DQ's vs bowe,, did you watch boxing then,,, Golata was a top 5 guy with holyfield, tyson, lewis and moorer

Akinwande Beat the hell?. Akinwande was disqualified for excessive holding, it was no thrilla in Manilla.
True but going into the fight, akinwande was seen as a terror, hindsight is always 20/20

Shannon Briggs the lineal champion, yes, for one fight. After winning a mixed decision against a 42 years old Foreman.
Lineal champ, and would go on to win another belt years later, lewis beat him down

McCall in the rematch McCall refused to fight in rounds 4 and 5, causing the referee to stop the fight. McCall wasn't getting beaten, the first 3 rounds were all competitive.
Lewis was winning, it wasnt a massacre like the rahman rematch, and i clearly said that he had a crackhead breakdown

[Tyson] ... what version of Tyson ...
I never said the tyson win was great, but he did beat him down, much like everyone that ever fought lewis, outside of ray mercer and that euro guy zerojivic

That said, I don't mind seeing Lewis in a top 10 HW ATG , he is in the mix, but it seems to me you are exaggerating his resume.

Im not exaggerating, going into the akinwande, grant, ruddock, golata fights, those were all big huge fights, and he destroyed guys at their peaks, just like he did to micheal grant and he also stopped a prime vitali.. Hindsight is always 20/20 but i watched lewis' entire career from the olympics to his retirement and he was the very best of the 2nd best heavy era, the 90s and he destroyed guys,,, if you dont think that golata was a top heavy in 97, or ruddock wasnt being billed as the best heavy in 92 then you probably didnt watch boxing then.

[beez721]

Im not exaggerating, going into the akinwande, grant, ruddock, golata fights, those were all big huge fights, and he destroyed guys at their peaks, just like he did to micheal grant and he also stopped a prime vitali.. Hindsight is always 20/20 but i watched lewis' entire career from the olympics to his retirement and he was the very best of the 2nd best heavy era, the 90s and he destroyed guys,,, if you dont think that golata was a top heavy in 97, or ruddock wasnt being billed as the best heavy in 92 then you probably didnt watch boxing then.

the ruddock fight was a good win at the time but the other guys he was pretty much expected to win by a good margin

[B-Bomber]

Im not exaggerating, going into the akinwande, grant, ruddock, golata fights, those were all big huge fights, and he destroyed guys at their peaks, just like he did to micheal grant and he also stopped a prime vitali.. Hindsight is always 20/20 but i watched lewis' entire career from the olympics to his retirement and he was the very best of the 2nd best heavy era, the 90s and he destroyed guys,,, if you dont think that golata was a top heavy in 97, or ruddock wasnt being billed as the best heavy in 92 then you probably didnt watch boxing then.

Maybe Golota was ranked in the top 5 of some federation in 1997, I honestly don't care, what I know for sure is that he wasn't good.

Ruddock was a solid contender, I don't deny that. But you cannot base your evaluation of Lewis' resume on how hyped a guy was at the time, but on how good he actually was.

By your logic,Guerrero should be considered a great win for Mayweather because he beat Berto. And Guerrero did actually beat Berto, unlike Ruddock with Tyson.

And I don't think Lewis fought in the 2nd best era ever

[kardsufur]

he's #10-15 to me or maybe 10-12

[Sugar Adam Ali]

the ruddock fight was a good win at the time but the other guys he was pretty much expected to win by a good margin

No thats not right,, after lewis got ko'd by mccall, everyone was off his bandwagon, and lewis couldnt get any respect,, looking back he know that lewis handled business, but after the mccall ko, it took lewis a very long time to gets his respect back

Maybe Golota was ranked in the top 5 of some federation in 1997, I honestly don't care, what I know for sure is that he wasn't good.

Ruddock was a solid contender, I don't deny that. But you cannot base your evaluation of Lewis' resume on how hyped a guy was at the time, but on how good he actually was.

By your logic,Guerrero should be considered a great win for Mayweather because he beat Berto. And Guerrero did actually beat Berto, unlike Ruddock with Tyson.

And I don't think Lewis fought in the 2nd best era ever

1. Golata was a great talent in the mid 90's... He broke onto the scene in the rid**** bowe fights, and yes he was an idiot, but he was thought of as one of the best, if he didnt get himself disqualified,, but then lewis blew him out in a minute, and then everyone copied that blueprint,

2. Geurrero is nonsense,,, ghost never had hype like ruddock did in 91-92, beating berto does not compare to going to war with mike tyson....
Point is that lewis repeatedly fought guys at their peak and demolished them,, It would be like if floyd had fought manny, cotto, williams, margs, in their peaks, and destroyed them, Its kinda like when floyd beat a prime undefeated canelo,, no if canelo never wins a big fight again, 20 years from now people will say that canelo wasnt a great win for floyd, but in reality it was a great win at the time,,

3. If you dont think the 90s were the 2nd best heavy division era, then you obviously werent around to watch it,,,
the 70s and the 90s are universally considered the best 2 eras ever in the heavy division,,,, Which era do you think is #2

[B-Bomber]

No thats not right,, after lewis got ko'd by mccall, everyone was off his bandwagon, and lewis couldnt get any respect,, looking back he know that lewis handled business, but after the mccall ko, it took lewis a very long time to gets his respect back



1. Golata was a great talent in the mid 90's... He broke onto the scene in the rid**** bowe fights, and yes he was an idiot, but he was thought of as one of the best, if he didnt get himself disqualified,, but then lewis blew him out in a minute, and then everyone copied that blueprint,

2. Geurrero is nonsense,,, ghost never had hype like ruddock did in 91-92, beating berto does not compare to going to war with mike tyson....
Point is that lewis repeatedly fought guys at their peak and demolished them,, It would be like if floyd had fought manny, cotto, williams, margs, in their peaks, and destroyed them, Its kinda like when floyd beat a prime undefeated canelo,, no if canelo never wins a big fight again, 20 years from now people will say that canelo wasnt a great win for floyd, but in reality it was a great win at the time,,

3. If you dont think the 90s were the 2nd best heavy division era, then you obviously werent around to watch it,,,
the 70s and the 90s are universally considered the best 2 eras ever in the heavy division,,,, Which era do you think is #2

Golota got disqualified, there is no if. He had 2 losses in a row, and although was thought to be good, he never -proved- to be good.

Guerrero wasn't over hyped, Berto was, what I am saying is that you cannot consider the media hype when trying to evaluate a fighter's resume.

Ruddock was a solid contender, the hype around him at the time has no effect on how good he was.

As for the 2nd best eras of HW's, there are at least a couple I can think of.

The 40's, with Louis, Jersey Joe Walcott, Max Baer, Max Schmeling.

Or the 60's, with Patterson, Liston, young Classius Clay.

[A-Wolf]

Simple question: Define ATG.

^^^^^^^^^^

Also, people responding yes: make an actual argument.