In your opinion who is the GOAT

[Joe Grizzley]

WAS BORN AFTER 1990...
So for me
Floyd Joy Money Mayweather
GOAT

Thats not GOAT, thats GOYT. Different.

[crold1]

there is video footage of ali. we only have to look to youtube to see him fight. where the hell can i see that harry greb guy fight? people only mention these old timers whos footage doesnt even exist to sound clever. there is no way you can call someone the greatest if there is no damn footage of him anywhere

Your're right. The footage of the men he did fight, footage like Walker's draw with Sharkey or Tunney's wins over Dempsey and some others are completely useless in telling us that a guy who had decisive wins over both was a great fighter. The guy with arguably (and there are only a couple who can argue against him) the deepest resume, and roster of wins, in the history of boxing, from Middle to Heavyweight, a consensus candidate for best Middleweight ever and top 15-20 at Light Heavy...

...people just bring him up to be clever.

That's it.

[The Big Dunn]

Your're right. The footage of the men he did fight, footage like Walker's draw with Sharkey or Tunney's wins over Dempsey and some others are completely useless in telling us that a guy who had decisive wins over both was a great fighter. The guy with arguably (and there are only a couple who can argue against him) the deepest resume, and roster of wins, in the history of boxing, from Middle to Heavyweight, a consensus candidate for best Middleweight ever and top 15-20 at Light Heavy...

...people just bring him up to be clever.

That's it.

I understand his point. Its why I dont have an ATG list and limit discussion of greatness mostly to guys Ive seen other than srr.

In no other sport would we do this, even the one on one sports. I'm not saying Harry Greb isn't great and who he beat isn't great. I just don't want to regurgitate Bert Sugar or DOn DUnphy's or your opinion-even though all of you are extremely knowlegeable.

I want to base my opinion on what I see. you know?

[crold1]

I understand his point. Its why I dont have an ATG list and limit discussion of greatness mostly to guys Ive seen other than srr.

In no other sport would we do this, even the one on one sports. I'm not saying Harry Greb isn't great and who he beat isn't great. I just don't want to regurgitate Bert Sugar or DOn DUnphy's or your opinion-even though all of you are extremely knowlegeable.

I want to base my opinion on what I see. you know?

Saying "I can't rate what I can't see" is fine. But you would never say bringing up Greb is just people being clever either. He was obviously great. He was obviously one of the greatest. Not knowing WHERE you would rate him because you haven't seen him is fine.

No one has seen the first two Zale-Graziano fights or Robinson-Gavilan. It's still safe to say, from accounts, the former were two ATG fights and the latter two were impressive wins. I haven't seen Burley drop Moore three times, or Charles whip him three times. I can still take those to account. Granted, those are fighters where other footage exists, but you get my point.

[-PBP-]

So people say "How can you rate fighters that you haven't seen fight?"


My response would be "How can you call a fighter the GOAT if you haven't seen every great boxer perform? You don't even know who your comparing him against."



It works both ways.

[Skip Bayless]

Your're right. The footage of the men he did fight, footage like Walker's draw with Sharkey or Tunney's wins over Dempsey and some others are completely useless in telling us that a guy who had decisive wins over both was a great fighter. The guy with arguably (and there are only a couple who can argue against him) the deepest resume, and roster of wins, in the history of boxing, from Middle to Heavyweight, a consensus candidate for best Middleweight ever and top 15-20 at Light Heavy...

...people just bring him up to be clever.

That's it.

basing your decision on second hand accounts isnt too smart. most people around here say marquez was robbed 3 times against pac when in reality i thought pac won 1st fight, 2nd was very close could have gone either way and marquez should have won 3rd by landslide. you have to judge for yourself.

[Uturn]

Sam Langford.

[crold1]

basing your decision on second hand accounts isnt too smart. most people around here say marquez was robbed 3 times against pac when in reality i thought pac won 1st fight, 2nd was very close could have gone either way and marquez should have won 3rd by landslide. you have to judge for yourself.

In super close and contentious fights, I agree. Always better to see them. Greb is described as just flat beating many of the best in the world from 60-up and almost everyone who counted at 60 and 75. The guys he fought called him great. The people who saw him said he was great. His record says he's one of the GOAT.

You can't discuss this question without bringing him up.

[crold1]

So people say "How can you rate fighters that you haven't seen fight?"


My response would be "How can you call a fighter the GOAT if you haven't seen every great boxer perform? You don't even know who your comparing him against."



It works both ways.

Excellent point.

[The Big Dunn]

Saying "I can't rate what I can't see" is fine. But you would never say bringing up Greb is just people being clever either. He was obviously great. He was obviously one of the greatest. Not knowing WHERE you would rate him because you haven't seen him is fine.

No one has seen the first two Zale-Graziano fights or Robinson-Gavilan. It's still safe to say, from accounts, the former were two ATG fights and the latter two were impressive wins. I haven't seen Burley drop Moore three times, or Charles whip him three times. I can still take those to account. Granted, those are fighters where other footage exists, but you get my point.

So people say "How can you rate fighters that you haven't seen fight?"

My response would be "How can you call a fighter the GOAT if you haven't seen every great boxer perform? You don't even know who your comparing him against."
It works both ways.

I agree with these points. Thats why I tend to just rank fighters I've seen.

I surely understand, srr, greb, langford, armstrong are among the greatest that ever lived. But its hard to judge their careers as I would a floyd or srl who I saw fight as amatuers and saw almost every fight as pros.