Why don't refs give 10 counts anymore?

[Dagomba]

Natas, you missed my point though. Let's say he was out of it, he was done....ok so what?

Is counting to 10 putting his health on the line? Whats the difference between counting to 10 and ending the fight?

The funny thing is, when Paul Williams got knocked out, the ref actually counted to 10...hahaha

Just count to 10, if he gets up, then you can evaluate him. If he doesn't, then the fight is over but you have to give him a chance. He wasn't out, he looked at the ref when he pushed him back down and was pissed he stopped the fight.

I get what you're saying but one can still argue that if the ref feels like he's not going to get up or he will get up but in no condition to continue, why count? Anyway this is one of those things where you have to either accept the ref's expertise or not.

[FerFAL]

I was really torn between who to root for in the Mares vs Gonzales fight. I love both of those guys and knew Gonzales was a very dangerous opponent because of his power and experience.

When Mares was hit with that left hook, and got up, the ref let it go and then he got knocked down again.

My thing is, why in the *** don't refs give 10 counts anymore? Allow Mares the right to get up if he can. I'm not saying he would have, or he wouldn't have but there was like 8 seconds left in the round and giving him a 10 count would have ended the fight.

Instead, the ref counts to about 5, stops the fight and then HOLD MARES DOWN from getting up!?!

What do you have to lose to just count to 10? I don't get it. What if Mares gets up, the round ends and then he has 1 minute to recover in the corner? It could have been a completely different fight.

Props to Gonzales but I'm tired of these refs just stopping fights. Give the ***in 10 count, if the guy is out cold like Pac or Hatton were, then I understand but Mares was trying to get up.

Boxing is a dangerous sport and no matter how much balls one fighter may have, tis not his choice to die in the ring even if he's willing to do that. That's why you have ref, doctors and a corner. The ref. is the guy 5 inches away from the boxers face looking into his eyes. The pupils, the movement, if the guy jsut inst there eny more even if his heart makes him get up, that's when the fight gets stop. There's really no point i someone gettting hurt, its a sport at the end of the day. Getting KO is bad enough as it is, there's no point in waiting unitl a guy gets beaten to pulp to stop the fight.
Sure you may have a wrong decision by a judge every now and then, stopping it too early, but any sane person preffers that, preffers the fight being stopped 10 seconds too early than 10 seconds too late. Ten seconds to later, even 2 seconds to late! may make all the difference in the world. We're talking brain damage, even death.
Ever seen a boxer with brain damage because referee took a couple seconds longer to stop the fight? not pretty.

[TOBYLEE1]

Some greats fights have had happened because the Ref didn't stop the fight.

But Mares was taking thunderous shots and was so visibly hurt. I wouldn't had minded that the Ref would had given him an eight coung but don't have a problem either with the stoppage

[bojangles1987]

Sorry man but you are still missing the point. Giving the 10 count doesn't put a fighter in anymore danger than just stopping the fight. IF Mares gets up, the ref will evaluate him as he's standing like he did the first time he was knocked down.

The ref will look at him, ask him if he's ok and ask him to walk towards him. If he's not good, THEN he ends the fight, but why end it on the canvas without giving him that chance?

Just ending the fight, takes that opportunity away from him, that's my point.

JUST GIVE A ***IN 10 COUNT!

That's true. Guess I'm just used to refs being cautious now. I don't really think about it, but refs probably should count, and not end the fight with the fighter on the ground unless they are Pacquiao'd or Hatton'd.

They don't want to risk Mares getting up, looking good enough to fight on, and then getting knocked unconscious. That's why I assume is going through the ref's head. Maybe the fighter deserves that chance, but the authority figures don't want to give it to them because of the possible consequences.

[Bigg Rigg]

I know what you mean, but in regards to Mares to be fair the ref was close to stopping it afterthe first KD. He looked at mares very hard and aactually did him a favor by giving him a lot of time to walk towards him. I think the ref wanted to give him a chance. And then mares used no defense, was just wailing arm pumches in desperation with head looking down, basically not protecting himself at all. He goes down again thats all the ref needed to see.

This^^^ Also Mares went down hard the second time.

[Hop]

Don't doubt Mares' heart by claiming he wanted out in the 1st round..he could've been saved by the bell..but I doubt the 60sec break would've been enough for him to recover

You could be correct, but to be fair it is total speculation on your part, and that's my point. I have my doubts about your scenario, and if ... if a fighter seems able to continue I don't want it decided based on speculation (yours, mine, or the ref's). Mares was not given his full chance to show that perhaps he could have continued. Don't wave it off at "3". It's not like he was dead-like, as Pacquiao was.

[UTEP]

I get what you're saying but one can still argue that if the ref feels like he's not going to get up or he will get up but in no condition to continue, why count? Anyway this is one of those things where you have to either accept the ref's expertise or not.

Exactly, Jack Riess is a great referee, he knew exactly how hurt Mares was and stopped the fight immediately like any good ref would do. Boxing needs more refs like Jack Riess.

Skip to 4:00 of the vid, Mares can barely even get up for Christ's sake, even after they get him up on a stool he still looks woozy and out of it.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

I get what you're saying but one can still argue that if the ref feels like he's not going to get up or he will get up but in no condition to continue, why count? Anyway this is one of those things where you have to either accept the ref's expertise or not.

Boxing is a dangerous sport and no matter how much balls one fighter may have, tis not his choice to die in the ring even if he's willing to do that. That's why you have ref, doctors and a corner. The ref. is the guy 5 inches away from the boxers face looking into his eyes. The pupils, the movement, if the guy jsut inst there eny more even if his heart makes him get up, that's when the fight gets stop. There's really no point i someone gettting hurt, its a sport at the end of the day. Getting KO is bad enough as it is, there's no point in waiting unitl a guy gets beaten to pulp to stop the fight.
Sure you may have a wrong decision by a judge every now and then, stopping it too early, but any sane person preffers that, preffers the fight being stopped 10 seconds too early than 10 seconds too late. Ten seconds to later, even 2 seconds to late! may make all the difference in the world. We're talking brain damage, even death.
Ever seen a boxer with brain damage because referee took a couple seconds longer to stop the fight? not pretty.

You guys still don't get it.....LOL

Whether or not you stop it when he's laying on the canvas or standing in front of you it makes no difference. That's the point.

Just because he gets up, doesn't mean he will let him fight. Just give him the 10 count and evaluate him as he's standing in front of you.

I don't know why that's so hard to understand.

[Dagomba]

You guys still don't get it.....LOL

Whether or not you stop it when he's laying on the canvas or standing in front of you it makes no difference. That's the point.

Just because he gets up, doesn't mean he will let him fight. Just give him the 10 count and evaluate him as he's standing in front of you.

I don't know why that's so hard to understand.

Oh I get it. What I'm telling you is, if an expert ref like Riess feels like there was no need to count anymore why give him ****? He felt there was no need to count to 10 again.

He did count to ten and he did evaluate Mares as he stood in front of him. He did that on the first KD, he gave him relatively a really long time to evaluate him and to give the champion time and a second chance. Mares had no answer because he had no legs and was fighting out of sheer instinct, Abner even said he didn't even remember how the KO played out. If Riess felt it was over and he felt there was no need to count to 10. Why would he?

[TintaBoricua]

I know! btw I have a thread with a poll, vote on it if you haven't already.

The more I think about, the more classics I can pick out where fighters may never have reached their potential, Pac v JMM 1, Prov v Bradley (great fight for both guys), Khan v Maidana (imagine if was stopped when Maidana was rolling on the ground hurt as hell) or more recently Barker v Geale.

I gave modern examples so people don't come out with rose tinted glasses and say "oh yeah but fighters in them days were tougher bla bla bla"

I always use Pacquiao Marquez I as the best example. The Pacquiao Marquez quadrilogy as the best fight series that almost never was, and we have Joe Cortez to thank for that. Marquez looked done after that third knockdown when he put his gloves up to his face. Thank you, Joe. THANK YOU, Joe.