Prime Roy Jones Vs Andre Ward, who you got?

[K-DOGG]

You are disqualified RIGHT THERE! A) That was past Jones prime B) Jones was drained from losing 20 plus pounds of muscle and even his face was gaunt as hell which told the story of the situation he was in just like a lot of guys who lose weight unaturally and this has a perminent affect on an athelete's body and C) That was not even at 168. Jones was at a higher weight, drained, past his prime and that is NOT what you use to gauge Ward's effectiveness. You have not seen Jones fight in his prime at 168, that is very obvious. They are not even in the same league prime for prime at 168.

LOL!!!!

Fine, exclude the Tarver example. Fact is, Roy didn't really fight anybody of consequence outside of James Toney at 168. Who do you want me to use as an example?? Tony freakin' Thornton??!

The point is in the style, man. Was Roy weight drained in the first fight? Yeah, I'll give you that. However, he wasn't against Montell Griffin in the first fight, yet......on the ropes he laid. Why? Because he couldn't deal with the pressure. And don't give me that "Jones destroyed him in the rematch" line.....that performance was an annomaly.....an impressive one; but an annomaly none the less.

And, no, Griffin's style is not remotely close to Ward's; but that's not the point. The point is style make fights....and Ward has a chance to beat Jones.

[K-DOGG]

Oh.....and PS:

I was watchin' Joens on the USA network before he even got a title shot at 160.

So, yeah. I seen him. Watched nearly every damn fight.

[richardt]

LOL!!!!

Fine, exclude the Tarver example. Fact is, Roy didn't really fight anybody of consequence outside of James Toney at 168. Who do you want me to use as an example?? Tony freakin' Thornton??!

The point is in the style, man. Was Roy weight drained in the first fight? Yeah, I'll give you that. However, he wasn't against Montell Griffin in the first fight, yet......on the ropes he laid. Why? Because he couldn't deal with the pressure. And don't give me that "Jones destroyed him in the rematch" line.....that performance was an annomaly.....an impressive one; but an annomaly none the less.

And, no, Griffin's style is not remotely close to Ward's; but that's not the point. The point is style make fights....and Ward has a chance to beat Jones.

IF you are going to use the Griffin fight where Jones was lackluster then you can use the fight where Ward was dropped and if that was Jones, he would have had Ward out quick. Calling the Jones KO of Griffin and ANOMALY is ***ing Joke. Jones came out on fire and ripped Griffin a new hole. Bottom line is the OVERWHELMING choice among Boxing experts, fans and anyone is Jones beats Ward. That's all there is to it. End of discussion. The fans have spoken. Case closed.

[K-DOGG]

IF you are going to use the Griffin fight where Jones was lackluster then you can use the fight where Ward was dropped and if that was Jones, he would have had Ward out quick. Calling the Jones KO of Griffin and ANOMALY is ***ing Joke. Jones came out on fire and ripped Griffin a new hole. Bottom line is the OVERWHELMING choice among Boxing experts, fans and anyone is Jones beats Ward. That's all there is to it. End of discussion. The fans have spoken. Case closed.

Hmmmmmm. Nope, case not closed. It's an opinion and of course you and the other 99% are entitled to yours.

The definition of an anomaly is that it is a rarity when compared to the overall body of work. Jones was not a first round kayo fighter against quality opposition. Did he come out on fire? Well, it takes a real genius to point out the obvious, so I'll give you points for being observant and taking mental notes.

However, while you're in the way back machine, explain how the majority of his contests did not end in round 1. Wait, let me help....it wasn't his style because he was a caution-first fighter.......(hence the term "anomaly")

Playing this your way, I would have to use a specific example where Jones fought a really good fighter at 168. Who do I choose?

Well, let's see. The obvious comparison would be Toney; but wait. I can't do that because you've already brought up the weight-drained scenario in the first Tarver fight; and anybody who follows the sport knows that James Toney was weight drained coming into that contest.....unless there a complete tardo, right.

So, let's see who else at 168 is comparable? Thornton? No. Lucas? Ah....no. Oh, wait. VINNY PAZIENZA, RIGHT!!???

Seriously man, don't take this so damn serious. I never said Jones wasn't an all time great fighter or even p4p greater than Ward will ever be; but he ain't a god, he isn't infallible, and he was beatable by a fighter with the appropriate skill level. If you're going to hone in on Jones at 168, you're S.O.L because Ward smokes him as far as the competition level at that weight class.

YES, I SAID "SMOKES HIM". Forget Toney, 'cause he was "weight-drained", that leaves a group of opponents who would qualify for what?


168 Lb competition:


Jones: Toney (weight-drained, Lucas (who), Thornton (The Punching Postman? Please. He was a dull fighter even on ESPN.....and I liked him!, and our last candidate, and best.....(next to Toney, who was weight drained) Bryant Brannon.........Bryant Brannon? Who T F is Bryant Brannon?????

Ward: won super middleweight tourney against..... competition the likes of Mikkel Kessler, Arthur Abraham, and Carl Froch. And that's not even mentioning his destruction of Chad Dawson (cause he's NOT a super middleweight)


Now, that's not to say they're weren't better 168 lbers around when Jones was fighting at that weight class. I mean, you had Benn, Eubank, Watson, Nunn, and McCllelan for Pete's sake. Problem is......Jones didn't fight ANY OF THEM!!.

So, you see. While we all got to enjoy the physical phenomenon that was Roy Jones wasting mediocre to poor competition in the flash of an eye, we just didn't get to see it at 168 Lbs.....which is apparently your sticking point. Ward, in his era, has proven himself to be the best at his weight class 10 times what Jones did when he fought in that division. Jones proved himself......to people who were drooling over his speed......for the most part at 175, where he still didn't fight everybody; but hey.....who can, right.

Roy Jones Jr was a once in a lifetime athlete who happened to apply his abilities to boxing. And, potentially, could have beaten any fighter at 160, 168, or 175 that ever lived....EVER. I know who Roy Jones was.....he was a helluva fighter; but .......he was human.

So you keep your opinion along with everybody else, that's fine. You're entitled to it....and, hell. You could be right; this is a guessing game after all.

Some of us just have more bullets in our guessing gun than others.

[richardt]

Hmmmmmm. Nope, case not closed. It's an opinion and of course you and the other 99% are entitled to yours.

The definition of an anomaly is that it is a rarity when compared to the overall body of work. Jones was not a first round kayo fighter against quality opposition. Did he come out on fire? Well, it takes a real genius to point out the obvious, so I'll give you points for being observant and taking mental notes.

However, while you're in the way back machine, explain how the majority of his contests did not end in round 1. Wait, let me help....it wasn't his style because he was a caution-first fighter.......(hence the term "anomaly")

Playing this your way, I would have to use a specific example where Jones fought a really good fighter at 168. Who do I choose?

Well, let's see. The obvious comparison would be Toney; but wait. I can't do that because you've already brought up the weight-drained scenario in the first Tarver fight; and anybody who follows the sport knows that James Toney was weight drained coming into that contest.....unless there a complete tardo, right.

So, let's see who else at 168 is comparable? Thornton? No. Lucas? Ah....no. Oh, wait. VINNY PAZIENZA, RIGHT!!???

Seriously man, don't take this so damn serious. I never said Jones wasn't an all time great fighter or even p4p greater than Ward will ever be; but he ain't a god, he isn't infallible, and he was beatable by a fighter with the appropriate skill level. If you're going to hone in on Jones at 168, you're S.O.L because Ward smokes him as far as the competition level at that weight class.

YES, I SAID "SMOKES HIM". Forget Toney, 'cause he was "weight-drained", that leaves a group of opponents who would qualify for what?


168 Lb competition:


Jones: Toney (weight-drained, Lucas (who), Thornton (The Punching Postman? Please. He was a dull fighter even on ESPN.....and I liked him!, and our last candidate, and best.....(next to Toney, who was weight drained) Bryant Brannon.........Bryant Brannon? Who T F is Bryant Brannon?????

Ward: won super middleweight tourney against..... competition the likes of Mikkel Kessler, Arthur Abraham, and Carl Froch. And that's not even mentioning his destruction of Chad Dawson (cause he's NOT a super middleweight)


Now, that's not to say they're weren't better 168 lbers around when Jones was fighting at that weight class. I mean, you had Benn, Eubank, Watson, Nunn, and McCllelan for Pete's sake. Problem is......Jones didn't fight ANY OF THEM!!.

So, you see. While we all got to enjoy the physical phenomenon that was Roy Jones wasting mediocre to poor competition in the flash of an eye, we just didn't get to see it at 168 Lbs.....which is apparently your sticking point. Ward, in his era, has proven himself to be the best at his weight class 10 times what Jones did when he fought in that division. Jones proved himself......to people who were drooling over his speed......for the most part at 175, where he still didn't fight everybody; but hey.....who can, right.

Roy Jones Jr was a once in a lifetime athlete who happened to apply his abilities to boxing. And, potentially, could have beaten any fighter at 160, 168, or 175 that ever lived....EVER. I know who Roy Jones was.....he was a helluva fighter; but .......he was human.

So you keep your opinion along with everybody else, that's fine. You're entitled to it....and, hell. You could be right; this is a guessing game after all.

Some of us just have more bullets in our guessing gun than others.

Jones was on his way to knocking out Griffin in the first fight and did it the second. His power was no anomaly. I could care less if it was the first round or the third but that KO was no anomaly. An anomaly is a fighter who is 20-0 with 2 KO who gets a first round KO over a contender.

And your mention of Benn and others is weak. Not every other fighter fought each other and I can name fighters back then who never fought each other so Jones is not expected to fight everyone. He fought regularly which means many had their shot at him.

And one more thing you will learn as you become more familiar with Boxing, resumes don't fight resumes!! So you wasted a lot of useless writing, otherwise Mosley would have never beat Oscar in that first fight because Mosley's resume DID NOT COMPARE to Oscar's. If resumes counted, then every fight could be decided on paper. Not to mention the fact that thousands of Boxers who have done the same since including Crawford who fought no one and beat Prescott and the endless list of others. Jones won titles in multiple weight classes and fought roughly 14 former, current at the time and future world champions. A poll was put up and the pick was overwhelming. Case closed.

[GRboxing]

Roy would have countered Ward to death and stopped him. Ward struggled with Bika for crying out loud

[-PBP-]

What would Andre Ward be able to do that Toney and Hopkins weren't?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

What would Andre Ward be able to do that Toney and Hopkins weren't?

exactly,,,, that is a great point,,, what does ward do so great that hopkins and toney couldnt do...

ward may have a better resume when all said and done,,,,

but jones is the better fighter H2H

[BigAlexSand]

Roy by mid-round knock out/tko... Not many could get down with a young Captain Hook/Superman

[Derranged]

Look at what drained Dawson was able to do to Ward in the 1st round.

Roy would emasculate this kid.

Just re-watched that round, exactly what did Dawson do?

Roy by UD by the way.