MW Division is Depressing

[HeroBando]

I think GGG's stamina may be his greatest problem as he steps up in competition against guys who won't bow out in the first few rounds (this could happen at 160 or 168).

When Sergio KO'd Williams, P. Will already had 3 fights at 160 including a KO1 against Andy Kolle, a shuout UD against Winky Whright and a SD win over Sergio Martinez.

I don't see any evidence of stamina issues. His output is moderate, especially early in the fight. The one time he went long he was unloading on Ouma late

As for PWill, none of those guys were ranked at MW. not top 10, not even top 20

[BafanaBafana]

I don't see any evidence of stamina issues. His output is moderate, especially early in the fight. The one time he went long he was unloading on Ouma late

As for PWill, none of those guys were ranked at MW. not top 10, not even top 20

Watch the Ouma fight from the 6th round on and the Rosado fight from the 5th round on. It's only natural that he would have some stamina issues because he has never gone 10 rounds once and most of his fights end before the first 5 rounds.

Also P.WIll's resume at 160 was probably better than most middleweights at the time. Winky Whright was considered the #1 middleweight contender by the RING in 2007 and #10 in 2009, Sergio Martinez was the #1 ranked 154 fighter and became the lineal middleweight champ right after his first P.WIll fight.

[HeroBando]

Watch the Ouma fight from the 6th round on and the Rosado fight from the 5th round on. It's only natural that he would have some stamina issues because he has never gone 10 rounds once and most of his fights end before the first 5 rounds.

Also P.WIll's resume at 160 was probably better than most middleweights at the time. Winky Whright was considered the #1 middleweight contender by the RING in 2007 and #10 in 2009, Sergio Martinez was the #1 ranked 154 fighter and became the lineal middleweight champ right after his first P.WIll fight.

I streamed the Ouma fight live, and rewatched it feeling dirty, like watching snuff flick. It was exactly after round 6 that he really started taking liberties with poor Ouma. I didn't really see stamina issues in the Rosado fight, seems like you're fishing for anything.

I agree MW ****** at the time. But beating 3 unranked dudes shouldn't rank you high in that division.

BTW I'm amazed that Martinez got to #1 at 154 with just Bunema and Cintron. Is this really true?

[BafanaBafana]

I streamed the Ouma fight live, and rewatched it feeling dirty, like watching snuff flick. It was exactly after round 6 that he really started taking liberties with poor Ouma. I didn't really see stamina issues in the Rosado fight, seems like you're fishing for anything.

He got hit a lot (look at his face) because he wouldn't keep his hands up, he wouldn't keep his hands up because he was gassed. Notice that Ouma was also gassed, this was a pretty nasty fight.

BTW I'm amazed that Martinez got to #1 at 154 with just Bunema and Cintron. Is this really true?

When you put things in context it makes a lot more sense.
This was the 154 ranking at the time:

1. Sergio Gabriel Martinez (WBC)
2. Cory Spinks (IBF)
3. Kermit Cintron
4. Deandre Latimore
5. Ryan Rhodes
6. Alfredo Angulo
7. Yuri Foreman (WBA)
8. Joachim Alcine
9. Vanes Martirosyan
10. Zaurbek Baysangurov

Vernon Forrest was stripped of the WBC in 2008 for ducking Martinez, he also passed away in 2009 so he was removed from the ranking. Paul Williams moved to 160. Kermit Cintron was a live dog and got a win over Angulo that year. Most of the other guys hadn't fought each other or were avoiding Martinez. Sergio had wins over Cintron, Bunema (coming off some notable wins), Saul Roman (a live dog then), and a close fight against P. Will (at 160) a lot of people thought he won.

Maybe it's a bit like saying how is Golovkin the #1 contender at 160 when he only has a win against Macklin.

[HeroBando]

He got hit a lot (look at his face) because he wouldn't keep his hands up, he wouldn't keep his hands up because he was gassed. Notice that Ouma was also gassed, this was a pretty nasty fight.


When you put things in context it makes a lot more sense.
This was the 154 ranking at the time:

1. Sergio Gabriel Martinez (WBC)
2. Cory Spinks (IBF)
3. Kermit Cintron
4. Deandre Latimore
5. Ryan Rhodes
6. Alfredo Angulo
7. Yuri Foreman (WBA)
8. Joachim Alcine
9. Vanes Martirosyan
10. Zaurbek Baysangurov

Vernon Forrest was stripped of the WBC in 2008 for ducking Martinez, he also passed away in 2009 so he was removed from the ranking. Paul Williams moved to 160. Kermit Cintron was a live dog and got a win over Angulo that year. Most of the other guys hadn't fought each other or were avoiding Martinez. Sergio had wins over Cintron, Bunema (coming off some notable wins), Saul Roman (a live dog then), and a close fight against P. Will (at 160) a lot of people thought he won.

Maybe it's a bit like saying how is Golovkin the #1 contender at 160 when he only has a win against Macklin.

It's not cause he was gassed, he was getting hit a lot from the beginning. Ouma does that, and GGG happily engaged featherfisted Ouma in a slugging match.

Yeah it's actually very similar to GGG at MW. Still he didn't have anywhere near the notoriety and the ducking, so I'm surprised he got to #1. But looking at that list, it's not outrageous.

[BafanaBafana]

It's not cause he was gassed, he was getting hit a lot from the beginning. Ouma does that, and GGG happily engaged featherfisted Ouma in a slugging match.

Yeah it's actually very similar to GGG at MW. Still he didn't have anywhere near the notoriety and the ducking, so I'm surprised he got to #1. But looking at that list, it's not outrageous.

I think he did have considerable notoriety, by 2009 he already had 3 HBO fights and had been fighting on American networks since 2007. He was definitely ducked in the division for years, proof of it is that he didn't get a full title belt until he was 34 despite winning 28 fights in a row. At 154 he was De La Hoya's mandatory, then Floyd's, then Forrest's. Initially he should have inherited the WBC title from Floyd after Floyd vacated, but somehow Forrest got the belt instead and proceeded to duck him for years.

[mathed]

I think he did have considerable notoriety, by 2009 he already had 3 HBO fights and had been fighting on American networks since 2007. He was definitely ducked in the division for years, proof of it is that he didn't get a full title belt until he was 34 despite winning 28 fights in a row. At 154 he was De La Hoya's mandatory, then Floyd's, then Forrest's. Initially he should have inherited the WBC title from Floyd after Floyd vacated, but somehow Forrest got the belt instead and proceeded to duck him for years.

I was going to hit on that, it's not something a lot of people ever mention.

[{Pito}]

I wouldn't really be backing either guy against the other i just hope they would both show their best and would be absolutely thrilled to witness it.

Pirog isnt a boxer or counter puncher that fights going backwards he either pressures you like the Jacobs fight if you try to box him or if you're willing to stand in front of him he fights his fight right there and is a volume puncher. He's elusive with a good defense and would get hit less than any other MW, even Martinez at this point, but he's still going to get hit alot and i don't see anyone going 12 rounds with Golovkin. Even if his chin and body can take it his face/skin won't hold up. Both of them have excellent varity and combinations and it would be beautiful to watch but i have a hard time seeing Pirog winning it. 60/40 Golovkin and i do think it's the hardest fight for Gena at 160.

My thoughts exactly right down to the T. I believe Pirog's face just wouldnt hold up.

[Bushidō]

GGG isn't the best MW, at least not yet.

I think Martinez's last 3 or 4 fights have showed that he's slipped a bit and I would make Golovkin a favorite over him. Especailly since he is injured now and when the fight happens Martinez will be even older.

[HeroBando]

I think he did have considerable notoriety, by 2009 he already had 3 HBO fights and had been fighting on American networks since 2007. He was definitely ducked in the division for years, proof of it is that he didn't get a full title belt until he was 34 despite winning 28 fights in a row. At 154 he was De La Hoya's mandatory, then Floyd's, then Forrest's. Initially he should have inherited the WBC title from Floyd after Floyd vacated, but somehow Forrest got the belt instead and proceeded to duck him for years.

While he was at 154 he had 2 fights at HBO, not 3. He won an elim vs Saul Roman 1 week before Floyd DLH. I doubt either guy knew his name. I know he was being ducked by Forrest, but by the time he left 154 he didn't have a fraction of GGG's present hype.