When was prime Vitali Klitschko?

[Jam Jars]

I thought it was obvious.

You were saying Vitali used to take out his opponents early. My point was that's great, but what happens when there is a defensive fighter (like Byrd) in front of him and he's not able to take him out early.

2009 Vitali knows what to do. Not sure about 2002 Vitali.

Gomez is not the best fighter Vitali beat, but I was more impressed by that performance than any other one.

Vitali showed more skills. Many fighter rely on pure aggression and physics, but very rarely that works all the time. Vitali developed over time.

He didn't have a choice, he can't fight like he did in 2002-2004 anymore. You think he chooses to throw 600 punches and go 12 rounds blowing out of his arse instead of stopping his opponents early?

[KillerRightHook]

I thought it was obvious.

You were saying Vitali used to take out his opponents early. My point was that's great, but what happens when there is a defensive fighter (like Byrd) in front of him and he's not able to take him out early.

2009 Vitali knows what to do. Not sure about 2002 Vitali.

Gomez is not the best fighter Vitali beat, but I was more impressed by that performance than any other one.

Vitali showed more skills. Many fighter rely on pure aggression and physics, but very rarely that works all the time. Vitali developed over time.

The only issue I have with this is the bold is that his opposition in this time peroid lacked head movement. These recent crop of fighters all lack head movement which is why Vitali looks more accurate with his shots. I was watching the Kevin Johnson fight a few days ago, and although he doesn't have great head movement, he was making Klitschko miss a fair bit. So I wouldn't buy too much into that.

And the final paragraph I have discussed, where I've said he fought this way to compensate for his injury-prone body, which is why he is an arm-puncher. Not quite the man that was giving Lennox a war.

[Simurgh]

He didn't have a choice, he can't fight like he did in 2002-2004 anymore. You think he chooses to throw 600 punches and go 12 rounds blowing out of his arse instead of stopping his opponents early?

I think he figured out that he can't box like that, regardless of his age. There would always be a fighter who is faster and more defensive (etc Byrd).

For example I strongly believe that 2002 Vitali could have more problems with Haye than 2009 Vitali.

It's not that much that Vitali improved his qualities that he already had (he didn't improve his speed or power - he might even lost some) but he solved some flaws he had (pacing himself better, not exhausting his body that much, relaying more on ring IQ and pure skills, taking better care of his defense).

He reads his opponents much better than he used to do. He beats his opponents by exposing their mistakes in contrast to pure aggression where it doesn't matter.

[Simurgh]

The only issue I have with this is the bold is that his opposition in this time peroid lacked head movement. These recent crop of fighters all lack head movement which is why Vitali looks more accurate with his shots. I was watching the Kevin Johnson fight a few days ago, and although he doesn't have great head movement, he was making Klitschko miss a fair bit. So I wouldn't buy too much into that.

And the final paragraph I have discussed, where I've said he fought this way to compensate for his injury-prone body, which is why he is an arm-puncher. Not quite the man that was giving Lennox a war.

Rewatch Gomez or Adamek fights. They are more elusive than the most fighter Vitali met in his early career.

Lennox is a fighter who likes wars. Vitali would have a much better chance by boxing him and not going to war. Lennox won that fight the moment he turned it to war and Vitali fully embracing it. It's not that much that Vitali is not ready for war, but his body isn't. That's something he is born with.

[Jam Jars]

Rewatch Gomez or Adamek fights. They are more elusive than the most fighter Vitali met in his early career.

Lennox is a fighter who likes wars. Vitali would have a much better chance by boxing him and not going to war. Lennox won that fight the moment he turned it to war and Vitali fully embracing it. It's not that much that Vitali is not ready for war, but his body isn't. That's something he is born with.

You think Vitali would have had a better chance boxing Lewis? Sorry but.....

[Simurgh]

You think Vitali would have had a better chance boxing Lewis? Sorry but.....

to everybody his own... yes I do.

I think Vitali would stand a better chance boxing Lennox as he did in the first 2 rounds without holding and clinching.

[KillerRightHook]

Rewatch Gomez or Adamek fights. They are more elusive than the most fighter Vitali met in his early career.

Lennox is a fighter who likes wars. Vitali would have a much better chance by boxing him and not going to war. Lennox won that fight the moment he turned it to war and Vitali fully embracing it. It's not that much that Vitali is not ready for war, but his body isn't. That's something he is born with.

I'm not sure, Vitali came out very aggressively in the first two rounds, hurting Lewis. But towards the end of Round 2, Lewis started to find some rhythm. Steward tells him to be more aggressive in the next round, and he drags Vitali into a war after busting his eye as Vitali gets desperate. He knows he has to finish Lewis off before his eye worsens.

[Simurgh]

I'm not sure, Vitali came out very aggressively in the first two rounds, hurting Lewis. But towards the end of Round 2, Lewis started to find some rhythm. Steward tells him to be more aggressive in the next round, and he drags Vitali into a war after busting his eye as Vitali gets desperate. He knows he has to finish Lewis off before his eye worsens.

IMO he didn't even tried to protect that eye. He fully embrace the war and furious exchange.

He just didn't know to box differently. He always boxed like that. Whenever he couldn't take his opponent out there was a problem.

Manny told Lennox to turn it to war. To push his jab, to clinch and then punch. Manny used to talk about all the tricks Lennox learned from him - how to pull opponent's hand down and then punch. Vitali wasn't ready for that - more specifically his body (skin) wasn't ready for that and he didn't know to do anything else. He didn't know how to take a few rounds protecting that eye. Lennox punches him, he comes forward.

anyhow...
Thank you for the interesting discussion. I think it's enough for today. I appreciate your comments.

[JAB5239]

Pretty confusing that people have voted 08-10, so he was prime aged 37-39? What person in their right mind believes an arm-punching Vitali nearing 40 facing relatively poor opposition is prime?? Just because he lost to Lennox doesn't mean he wasn't in his prime in 02-04 which I believe is your motive for not choosing this option, I see that this fight remains in vain for Klitschko fans, they can't admit their fighter who was fighting in his peak (aged 32) was beaten by an out of shape, unmotivated fighter who was looking for one last fight, which is why you see people like Simurgh who worships Klitschko try to save face by making the weak assumption that he was stylistically superior in 08-10. His style adjustment was to compensate for his injuries by fighting with less authority. Can I also mention the idiot Dr.Eisenfaust who voted 2011-12, because clearly he was in his prime aged 40... ****** ****.

Vitali was prime in 02-04, he was a machine in his prime and losing to a slightly out of prime, tad out of shape but still good top 5 All-time HW is no shame at all. Maybe I wouldn't have to rant if some of you didn't have to let your agenda get in the way of your opinion.

He was still good in 08-10, he just wasn't the fighter he quite was in 02-04. It's a shame that his injuries took away most his prime years.

Excellent post and to the point!

[Ogecca MaMa]

what an idiot this Eiseinfaust is