RIGHT NOW: Who is the P4P King?

[Doctor_Tenma]

Dawson didn't look or act drained until Ward caught him with a perfect counter and put him on his ass. Then all of the sudden, he was drained. He knew what he was in with and fought scared until Ward made him quit. Even if you think he was drained, it's STILL better than Guerrero at WW, that's almost a tune up level fight for a fighter of Floyd's caliber.

I'm with you to an extent, I don't believe Dawson was as drained as it's being made out to be. The man got caught perfectly and has always had a shaky chin, even at 175. It was a perfect counter, that punch would have gotten the same reaction out of Dawson at 175. It's seems unfathomable because people continue to sleep on Ward's power, the man stunned Froch multiple times.

[JaYDeuce11]

Floyd /close thread (Pacquiao fan too)

[Doctor_Tenma]

When you look at Ward's run from 2009-2011, you realize "Damn, this is the next great fighter of his era", and I still think he is. Since Froch, he hasn't done jack s**t worth rating.

Had he fought Dawson even at something like 172, I'd give him credit. But Dawson whether or not he said he'd be fine there was still drained. Dawson being ****** and agreeing to it doesn't change reality of him being completely drained.

Certain things your ignoring.

1. Ward was the most precise puncher Dawson had ever been in against

2. Dawson has a history of getting hurt, and this time he got caught square on the chin

3. Dawson was strong in those first 2 rounds, it was until after Ward adjusted that people started bringing up the weight

[4Corners]

In your eyes, he looked drained. He looked to me like a guy who realized he was fighting someone way out of his league skill wise. Did 168 help? No, but weight isn't why he lost.

Then Mayweather deserves 0 credit for Marquez at WW, he looked slow and bulky, regardless of the obvious skill defecit he was at and how he looked against Pacquiao there in subsequent fights.

Since Froch, Floyd has beaten Cotto and Guerrero. Guerrero isn't even a true WW, about the level of JSK. Also in your opinion, you've said Cotto is an overrated good fighter, that gave Floyd hell. That's not a good look.

At the time yes......what has Marquez done at WW since??? He beat Pacquiao there, which was huge. Dawson isn't going to do anything ever again at 168. Big difference between those two now.

Guerrero is better than Soto Karass, maybe they'll fight so we can see that. Cotto didn't exactly give Floyd hell, he won 3 rounds, 4 at the most if you favor any close round to Cotto.

This is why Floyd is P4P #1, because when someone takes a few rounds off him, it's giving him hell. I said Cotto's resume is overrated given his hype as supposedly one of the era's greatest fighters. Cotto's nowhere near "great" but he's a very good fighter, who can still fight in my opinion, just isn't at his best like he was prior to Margarito.

Doesn't change the fact that Mayweather has picked up a couple solid wins over top ranked fighters while Ward beat Dawson at a weight that means absolutely nothing, and has yet to fight again.

[4Corners]

Certain things your ignoring.

1. Ward was the most precise puncher Dawson had ever been in against

2. Dawson has a history of getting hurt, and this time he got caught square on the chin

3. Dawson was strong in those first 2 rounds, it was until after Ward adjusted that people started bringing up the weight

That doesn't change the fact of fighting him at a weight he hadn't been at in like 7 years or something. Had Pacquiao or Mayweather done that, oh lord. It would have been the end of the world as we know it. Imagine if Floyd fought Canelo at 147, NO ONE would give him credit, and that includes me.

[Doctor_Tenma]

That doesn't change the fact of fighting him at a weight he hadn't been at in like 7 years or something. Had Pacquiao or Mayweather done that, oh lord. It would have been the end of the world as we know it. Imagine if Floyd fought Canelo at 147, NO ONE would give him credit, and that includes me.

I understand that but that needs to be looked at as well.

[El Angel]

I'm with you to an extent, I don't believe Dawson was as drained as it's being made out to be. The man got caught perfectly and has always had a shaky chin, even at 175. It was a perfect counter, that punch would have gotten the same reaction out of Dawson at 175. It's seems unfathomable because people continue to sleep on Ward's power, the man stunned Froch multiple times.

Exactly, Ward > Dawson, regardless of the weight. A lot of things need to be looked at.

[El Angel]

At the time yes......what has Marquez done at WW since??? He beat Pacquiao there, which was huge. Dawson isn't going to do anything ever again at 168. Big difference between those two now.

Guerrero is better than Soto Karass, maybe they'll fight so we can see that. Cotto didn't exactly give Floyd hell, he won 3 rounds, 4 at the most if you favor any close round to Cotto.

This is why Floyd is P4P #1, because when someone takes a few rounds off him, it's giving him hell. I said Cotto's resume is overrated given his hype as supposedly one of the era's greatest fighters. Cotto's nowhere near "great" but he's a very good fighter, who can still fight in my opinion, just isn't at his best like he was prior to Margarito.

Doesn't change the fact that Mayweather has picked up a couple solid wins over top ranked fighters while Ward beat Dawson at a weight that means absolutely nothing, and has yet to fight again.

JSK has beaten the same fighters at WW that RG, more impressively actually. We'll see if they fight, Guerrero would lose IMO.

My point was viewing things differently as time goes on, I just rewarched Ward-Dawson, he definitely backed off once he got dropped hard. To that point he was trying to establish the jab and his length on Ward. He was just in against a fighter vastly more skilled than him.

When you always win 11-1 or 12-0, and then get pushed to 8-4, I've seen some ringside media have it 7-5 for Floyd, you were pressed and you were challenged. His nose was bloodied and he knew he was in with a fighter on his level. IMO Cotto is a great fighter, but that isn't what this is about.

Another poster seems to agree with me, same as how they did when I said Cotto's resume is better than Castillo and Corrales'.

[JAB5239]

I've been saying it for a while, it's Andre Ward, at least until September. If he had nothing lined up within a year of the Dawson fight, I'll drop him and Mayweather will move from 2 to 1 on my list.

I'd like it to be this way, but being so inactive I gotta put punk ass Mayweather in the top spot. Love him or hate him he has the resume, accomplishments and skills. Ward needs to get back in the ring and he can regain this spot, but as a boxing fan I can't in good conscience keep him ahead of someone else who keeps winning and showing superior skills against top notch comp time and again.

[El Angel]

I'd like it to be this way, but being so inactive I gotta put punk ass Mayweather in the top spot. Love him or hate him he has the resume, accomplishments and skills. Ward needs to get back in the ring and he can regain this spot, but as a boxing fan I can't in good conscience keep him ahead of someone else who keeps winning and showing superior skills against top notch comp time and again.

Perfectly reasonable position to take. It's either Mayweather or Ward clearly.