Has anyone ever done more long term damage to boxing than Wladimir Klitshcko?

[The Big Dunn]

Of course I account everything when I try to asses someone's career.

Only a very few champions had that opportunity to beat other ATG fighter. I can't give much credit Holmes for beating Ali, or Lennox for beating Tyson but I still consider them to be great.

Wlad did beat Mercer in fantastic fashion when he was only 26. Although that was past prime Mercer I really respect Ray. IMO he even beat Lennox when they fought.

Wlad beat Byrd. Fighter that doesn't get enough respect. The fighter who did beat Vitali (with some luck), who beat Tua, who beat Holyfiled. And it's not just that Wlad beat him, he destroyed him twice.

Among the others Wlad beat Peter, when Peter was unbeaten animal, he beat Brewster, Chagaev, Ibragimov, Haye, TT, Chambers, Botha... Those are all very good fighters.

Yes he lost 3 times. Once against Purity when he was 22 and after having 24 fights in less than 2 years. For example Lennox wasn't even a pro before he was 24. He lost to Sanders and Brewster. Well it's HW boxing. I didn't see any of those beat him bad. Sanders caught him early and it was over, he never recovered, it happens (and that even before he was with Manny) - for he showed big hurt getting up 4 times, after those huge punches. He destroyed Brewster in the rematch.

I mean noone is perfect. But I can't find many resume's better than Wlad's + he did all he could have possibly done.
For people who say he is boring and robotic, I ask them to spend just 10 min looking at this one...



Shame there is just no any good american HWs for him to fight and beat... I think that unfortunately hurt his image a lot.

wlad beat him before he beat all those guys so its like you are giving him extra credit. Only after he absorbed all those fights did wlad KO him. the 1st time they fought it was a UD if I'm not mistaken.

None of those guys is top 50. Maybe they might be top 100. which was my only point. The losses are all "bad" losses which should be factored into his ranking.

[Bigg Rigg]

So the argument is that once Ward or Mayweather retires those divisions will be more interesting?

The super middleweight division is not as historic as either welter or heavy. Now if u find Floyd boring maybe u will find his departure from the sport as a great thing. I don't like the way Wlad fights. That's why I feel the way I feel.

[Simurgh]

wlad beat him before he beat all those guys so its like you are giving him extra credit. Only after he absorbed all those fights did wlad KO him. the 1st time they fought it was a UD if I'm not mistaken.

None of those guys is top 50. Maybe they might be top 100. which was my only point. The losses are all "bad" losses which should be factored into his ranking.

Yes, he KOed him after those fights, but he beat him (convincingly) before Tua and Holyfield. I am not sure about top50, top100 rankings, honestly never made such a long list.

I don't agree those losses were that bad. For example IMO much worse loss is how Donaire was schooled by Rigo. Wlad got caught against Sanders, same way Lennox got caught against Rahman.

Brester was indeed very strange fight but lets say he just gassed and against Purity was gassing as well. He was winning both fights until that point.

Moreover that was not Wlad in his prime, not even close IMO. He became a much better boxer under Manny. Apart from those 3 fights I can't remember one fight were Wlad didn't dominate his opponent...

[Simurgh]

The super middleweight division is not as historic as either welter or heavy. Now if u find Floyd boring maybe u will find his departure from the sport as a great thing. I don't like the way Wlad fights. That's why I feel the way I feel.

Just out of curiosity and I ask you please to be honest...

What was the last Wlad's fight you wholly watched?

[The Big Dunn]

Yes, he KOed him after those fights, but he beat him (convincingly) before Tua and Holyfield. I am not sure about top50, top100 rankings, honestly never made such a long list.

I don't agree those losses were that bad. For example IMO much worse loss is how Donaire was schooled by Rigo. Wlad got caught against Sanders, same way Lennox got caught against Rahman.

Brester was indeed very strange fight but lets say he just gassed and against Purity was gassing as well. He was winning both fights until that point.

Moreover that was not Wlad in his prime, not even close IMO. He became a much better boxer under Manny. Apart from those 3 fights I can't remember one fight were Wlad didn't dominate his opponent...

when you lose to fighters that are not on your level in the fashion wlad did its bad, would be that way for anyone.

But you are giving him credit for win only and not in any way factoring in his losses.

Yes when he was under Manny he fought differently and dominated-but the opponents are not high quality, especially when compared to the opposition of the top 5 -15 atg hwt's which you said wlad was in.

[LacedUp]

Although I have nothing but a pure respect for the old champions, H2H Wlad beats Johnson no doubt.
boxing has evolved like any other sport.

I don't know why are talking only about Wlad's size. He has so much more apart his natural supreme physic.

Well, I see a recurring trend with Wlad fans who, when talking about greatest of all times, say that he could beat a Liston or a Dempsey or a Marciano or Frazier or whoever. Well, that isn't the question. H2H he's up there on his best day, no doubt. But an awful lot of people seem to dismiss the fact that he was ko'd three times in his career. After that he's fought on the outside and never gone for the kill before he's jabbed them in the face for 6 rounds. Hardly goat material, just saying.

But he's undoubtedly the greatest since Lewis. But still think big bro would hand it to him royally prime for prime.

[Bigg Rigg]

Just out of curiosity and I ask you please to be honest...

What was the last Wlad's fight you wholly watched?

The fight with that Mauriz Wach guy

[Simurgh]

when you lose to fighters that are not on your level in the fashion wlad did its bad, would be that way for anyone.

But you are giving him credit for win only and not in any way factoring in his losses.

Yes when he was under Manny he fought differently and dominated-but the opponents are not high quality, especially when compared to the opposition of the top 5 -15 atg hwt's which you said wlad was in.

It's subjective. Same way Lennox was KOed and while in his prime against much lesser fighters.

I account losses and everything. Holyfiled has 10 losses and 2 draws, Tyson has 6 losses, Holmes has 6 losses.

Yes they fought better opponents but still they generated much more losses.
And I am not sure that Holmes fought and beat much better opponents Wlad did. He lost twice to the man who never fought in HW prior to him.. that says something... and I still consider Holmes in top10 ATG for sure...

[Simurgh]

The fight with that Mauriz Wach guy

Did you find round 6 and 7 boring?

[Bigg Rigg]

Did you find round 6 and 7 boring?

No he's not really boring I just think he should fight more like a killer. He's huge with big punching power. He's too big to fight such a technical fight. Idk if I'm making any sense but idk how else I can describe it.