Has anyone ever done more long term damage to boxing than Wladimir Klitshcko?

[Simurgh]

Well, I see a recurring trend with Wlad fans who, when talking about greatest of all times, say that he could beat a Liston or a Dempsey or a Marciano or Frazier or whoever. Well, that isn't the question. H2H he's up there on his best day, no doubt. But an awful lot of people seem to dismiss the fact that he was ko'd three times in his career. After that he's fought on the outside and never gone for the kill before he's jabbed them in the face for 6 rounds. Hardly goat material, just saying.

But he's undoubtedly the greatest since Lewis. But still think big bro would hand it to him royally prime for prime.

I never said Wlad is GOAT. He isn't! Ali is GOAT. But that is not the discussion.

He is fighting smart, the way he was taught by Manny. He still KOs guys and if it takes 2 more rounds without taking any risk what's wrong with that. I actually rank smartness too. He is just smart, has ring IQ.

He was TKOed 3 times but many greats have too. Lennox was TKOed against Oliver and KOed against Rahman.. it happens. Rare fighters have Vitali's chin and this is HW division after all. Those guys are being hit by 220+ lbs of muscle. and bare in mind that wasn't prime Wlad...

[Simurgh]

No he's not really boring I just think he should fight more like a killer. He's huge with big punching power. He's too big to fight such a technical fight. Idk if I'm making any sense but idk how else I can describe it.

Yes it makes sense. But I can't really appreciate guy taking punches for no good reason.

Guys who tended to take those punches to be 'exciting' ended up having trouble making a single sentence - look at Toney, Holyfiled...

I like Wlad to be healthy and to have a good life after he retires too.

[slimshandy69]

I never said Wlad is GOAT. He isn't! Ali is GOAT. But that is not the discussion.

He is fighting smart, the way he was taught by Manny. He still KOs guys and if it takes 2 more rounds without taking any risk what's wrong with that. I actually rank smartness too. He is just smart, has ring IQ.

He was TKOed 3 times but many greats have too. Lennox was TKOed against Oliver and KOed against Rahman.. it happens. Rare fighters have Vitali's chin and this is HW division after all. Those guys are being hit by 220+ lbs of muscle. and bare in mind that wasn't prime Wlad...

I made that point but I got shot down.

Facts are Mike Tysons allowed a prime but Wlad isn't.

Wlads prime is which has been the last 9 years would destroy any heavyweight ever. You combine that physique and athleticism with that skill and speed, and you have the best heavyweight ever.

[junior gong]

I honestly cannot think of another man who has taken so much from the sport and done so much damage to it. I mean guys like Don King and Bob Arum have all done plenty to drag the sport down. However, they have also been involved in some massive highs that excited tens of millions of fans and helped shine a massive spotlight on this great sport.

Wlad on the other hand has become incredibly rich without ever doing anything to captivate a single casual fan. In fact he has turned tens of millions of boxing fans off from the HW division altogether.

In all his fights I can honestly say that 3 of his 5 most exciting and competitive matchups were when he was brutally stopped by poor opposition. Being bizarrely stopped multiple times is Wlad's biggest claim to fame at this point and no amount of bogus and boring defenses will ever erase that.

It is truly incredible that a man who was so clearly exposed by 3 relative bums has somehow managed to convince a small but vocal section of boxing fans that he is not only talented, but an all-time great. All without ever being in the ring with even a very good fighter.

His last four defenses is up there with some of the worst title defense streaks in the history of the sport. It includes a 40 year old 5'10 Black French dude, a cancer victim, and a 6'8 punching bag shipped from Poland.



His match-making, or more accurately mis-match-making, combined with his incredibly boring/****-scared fighting style has lead to HW boxing being dropped by TV and becoming the shame of the sport everywhere other than Germany.



I regularly come onto boxing forums and see Klit fanatics **** talking greats like Joe Louis, Mike Tyson, Muhammad Ali and Lennox Lewis. Really think about what those men achieved and then take a look at Wlad's career.

History will not be kind to the ****tier of the 2 Klitschko brothers.

Yes....Floyd Mayweather.

[The Big Dunn]

I made that point but I got shot down.

Facts are Mike Tysons allowed a prime but Wlad isn't.

Wlads prime is which has been the last 9 years would destroy any heavyweight ever. You combine that physique and athleticism with that skill and speed, and you have the best heavyweight ever.

but you are leaving out the suspect chin.

The level of opponents wlad fights now can't get to his chin. The ATG HWT's would find a way-even with Manny in the corner.

SO I canm see why you'd pick wlad to beat guys but at least acknowledge that the ATG hwt's would touch wlads chin continuously.

WIth a chin like that (and granted he's been better the last 10 years), if you can't keep a guy from touching you, its hard to just say he wins.

[LacedUp]

Yes it makes sense. But I can't really appreciate guy taking punches for no good reason.

Guys who tended to take those punches to be 'exciting' ended up having trouble making a single sentence - look at Toney, Holyfiled...

I like Wlad to be healthy and to have a good life after he retires too.

It's not about him taking punches. It's about him being in the entertainment business. And he's not holding his end up.

Listen, if my kid started boxing I would point him to Wlad's style all day rather than a guy going to war. It's not about that, but it's not interesting to the casual fan. And then we go on to talk about accomlishments. Ali over foreman, Frazier. Holmes over Cooney, Shavers. Lennox over Holyfield, Bruno, Tyson, Ruddock etc. Dempsey over Willard, Liston over Patterson. Clay over Liston, Tunney over Dempsey. Wlad over.... Eh? Sam Peter? David Haye? Ibragimov?

That's where he'll fall short. He would have ha the chance if he fought in the 90s.

I made that point but I got shot down.

Facts are Mike Tysons allowed a prime but Wlad isn't.

Wlads prime is which has been the last 9 years would destroy any heavyweight ever. You combine that physique and athleticism with that skill and speed, and you have the best heavyweight ever.

You said he is the best ever. That's all anyone needs to hear. No one in his right mind would say he's the best ever. That's why you got shot down.

[Simurgh]

It's not about him taking punches. It's about him being in the entertainment business. And he's not holding his end up.

Listen, if my kid started boxing I would point him to Wlad's style all day rather than a guy going to war. It's not about that, but it's not interesting to the casual fan. And then we go on to talk about accomlishments. Ali over foreman, Frazier. Holmes over Cooney, Shavers. Lennox over Holyfield, Bruno, Tyson, Ruddock etc. Dempsey over Willard, Liston over Patterson. Clay over Liston, Tunney over Dempsey. Wlad over.... Eh? Sam Peter? David Haye? Ibragimov?

That's where he'll fall short. He would have ha the chance if he fought in the 90s.

You said he is the best ever. That's all anyone needs to hear. No one in his right mind would say he's the best ever. That's why you got shot down.

Cooney? Bruno ()? that Tyson? Rudock?

Although good wins none of these (apart from Tyson, but not that version) is in top 50 or maybe not even 100 HW...

Wlad over Mercer, Byrd, Haye, soon Povetkin... all three better than Bruno.

It also comes to how Wlad handled them..

[LacedUp]

Cooney? Bruno ()? that Tyson? Rudock?

Although good wins none of these (apart from Tyson, but not that version) is in top 50 or maybe not even 100 HW...

Wlad over Mercer, Byrd, Haye, soon Povetkin... all three better than Bruno.

It also comes to how Wlad handled them..

Holmes-Cooney was one of the most anticipated HW matchups for a long log time, because of the racial aspect, Larry Holmes' dominance and both their backgrounds. That fight is bigger than anything Wlad has been in. Lewis-Bruno was a fight for the ages, two rivals going at it to fight out the right to become the next big thing. Absolutely legendary. Lewis-Tyson is the richest HW fight ever, whilst the win itself was not that impressive, a lot of people at the time said Tyson would take it. Also, there was an aura of greatness about it. That fight was to determine who was the best of the era. Can't see your dig at Ruddock? What's wrong with that fight?

Wlad beat a fat old mercer and Byrd in low key fights? Mercer was past his prime when he fought Lewis ffs. Byrd is probably Wlad's best win considering the Haye fight was a major letdown. It's really not that impressive, and neither was the fight itself.

Wlad has beaten a lot of decent fighters. But reality is, he has never been legendary. He never beat any legendary fighters or been in any legendary fights. Prove me wrong.

/Andrew

[Jedi Vader]

At least we, as noncasual boxing fans, can look into those Vitali's loses. It's not like we rank fighter just by looking boxrec.

I agree Vitali's resume is not on pair with Wlad's, but I never saw anyone outboxing or beating Vitali (p.s. please without cut pics).

Wlad is top10 ATG HW however you look at it, and he'll probably finish in top5 on many people lists.

This is the reason why Klitlickers are the worst kind of boxing 'fans' when they typically come out with demented statements like this.

[yoz]

It's not about him taking punches. It's about him being in the entertainment business. And he's not holding his end up.

So, selling out 30,000-40,000 seater stadiums doesn't count?