Tweet
Tyson and Ali were more recent?
-
-
He fought and beat all of the great black fighters of the time on his way up the ladder. Something that the white champions before and after him can't say.Originally posted by Capaedia View PostComment
-
While what some posters are saying is true, the reality is that shortly after his era we entered the most rich eras in boxing, where the technique and schooling of the art was worlds above the tattered remains of boxing knowledge that most trainers concentrate on and verse their fighters in today. Among boxing historians its a well known fact boxing, unlike most other sports, has taken steps back. So while it's true that today fighters are more technically sound in some aspects than Jack Johnson, a decade or so after his time and that statement is irrevocably false.
~LoadedWrapsLast edited by LoadedWraps; 07-09-2013, 11:23 PM.Comment
-
Not a valid excuse for not knowing. If you love/care about a sport, being ignorant about it's history and or being biased about the era you live in is the wrong answer every time.Originally posted by The Weebler II View Post
It's a problem in societies that is shared by both parents, and the obvious youngsters who know no better in the first place and are biased due to lack of experience among other things.Comment
-
Yeah, but OP was talking about random people he "runs into".Originally posted by LoadedWraps View Post
It's obvious more people would know Tyson/Ali because (a) they're still alive today and (b) their era was a lot more recent. Most people didn't even have televisions when Johnson was fighting.Comment
-
Well the number one reason is that Jack fought about 100 years ago. Not many white athletes from that time are talked about, much less black athletes. Lets also remember that that was a time period that America would simply rather forget about. Plus Jack wouldnt exactly fit under the peaceful non violent ways of Martin Luther King or Jackie Robinson, he was sort of like the Floyd Mayweather of his time, so you wouldn't see American society trying to elevate him as they do those two. Plus, both blacks and whites of that era and after didn't like the way he carried himself as champion. In fact, many black boxers that followed him would feel resentment because they felt like he ruined their chance to get a shot to become champion. So it wasn't like he was a Muhammad Ali who all fighters coming up would idolize, nor did he have an exciting style like a Tyson or Dempsey. Finally, lets remember that that was before television, and the poor film quality of his fights isn't exactly something non die hards will want to watch.Last edited by La_Vibora; 07-09-2013, 11:34 PM.Comment
-
Never claimed they did. But no one is saying Dempsey (similarly overrated) was a shining light for black people.Originally posted by ShoulderRoll
This isnt a race issue, this is a Johnson issue.
Posted from Boxingscene.com App for AndroidComment
-
Firstly..he didn't "draw the colour line" against his own people. He lived an extravagant life, loved fast cars and aeroplanes etc. And needed money. He and others explained it quite simply that there was no real money in fighting other black fighters. He fought black fighters loads of times, and you'll see that except very occasionally, the fights lasted enough rounds to give the white patrons "value for their money". He held the " world coloured title " for many years, defending it about 20 times, giving it up when he won the World title..Originally posted by Capaedia View Post
When he was on the run and living in France where no colour bar existed he fought a black man for the title. And he had a good chance of losing because a few days before the fight he fractured his arm but still went ahead.
As for the question by the Topic Starter, I believe at the reason that no one knows him is because in those days there was no PR, no radio, only newspaper news, phones were still very rare, travel only by horses, trains and ships etc. Auto's were very primitive..... There weren't even any decent roads in the most of the country. Still in his day, everybody knew him; it just hasn't percolated to recent times.
Besides all this, Ali and Tyson are still alive and get around everywhere. Johnson isn't, but I'd bet a million that if he'd been fighting during the late modern period, he would be better known even than they. He was a black boxing icon. When he beat Jeffries (and Jeffries said that even on his best day he'd be no match for Johnson) the riots all over the country caused the deaths of 19 people.
I believe that Johnson is the only man, certainly the only boxer who had an artillery shell named after him. The British "Tommies" in WW1 used to call a heavy German shell " a Jack Johnson" even though Johnson lost his title to Jess Willard, around that time. He had been unbeaten for about 14 years and had an enormous reputation; boxing and baseball were THE major sports in America, and soccer and boxing were the same in Europe..Last edited by edgarg; 07-10-2013, 12:06 AM.Comment
-
TV wasn't invented until around 1930 I think, it certainly wasn't in private homes where I lived until well after WW2, although probably in America since before the War.Originally posted by The Weebler II View PostComment
-
Edgarg, the man Johnson chose to fight was beaten from pillar to post by not just Langford, but Wills and Jeanette multiple times before he got his shot, and then multiple times after.
His lone victory over any of them came when Wills broke his wrist and lost a TKO. Hell, he ended his career with more losses than wins.
Johnson then drew with him and never defended the world against another black man.
I dont suppose youd give Mayweather a pass for avoiding high risk low reward fighters? So why Johnson?
There was massive pressure on him for a Langford rematch. He drew a revolver on Langford to get him away from him in a barn.
Posted from Boxingscene.com App for AndroidComment
Comment