Sergio is rebuilt

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  • NearHypnos
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    #31
    Ggg can cut the ring off retreating..slow footed guys who cant exactly fight off the back foot to begin with.

    You cant just talk about what GGG does without taking into account what Sergio does. GGG has brutal body shots but people forget Sergios body work which has broken down every fighter hes fought. And from long range with a dagger like left straight. GGG has appeared to be a tank but it literally wouldnt surprise me if Sergio badly busted up GGGs face over 12. GGG might have that clubbing power, but when has martinez been accused of being a soft puncher?

    What people dont realize is that martinez at 160 has that freaky speed advantage much like GGG has that power advantage an Chavez Jr a size advantge. Almost unnatural for the weight class. Martinez does get hit, but most times he's leaning away. Sergios movement doesnt come from his feet alone because he does change direction fast as f uck but it's also his upper body movement while being able to throw punches. GGG isnt super slow but he's considerably slower. He's going to have to walk through a lot of punishment to catch Sergio and once he does he might STILL get out fought and pushed back. GGG has seemed solid but we've seen him temporarily stopped in his tracks by lesser punchers and fighters even if it was brief.

    As much as I like GGG and thinks he's a stud he just doesnt SEEM to have (not saying he doesnt but just appears to at this stage) the skill to avoid Sergios best.

    He's going to get hit by long range powerful one twos through the guard and lefts to the stomach, get hit with combinations at mid range using his upper body movement along with swiping hooks around the guard to spin GGG or initiate a clinch from up close to do the same or he'll fight very close where GGG cant get ALL his power off.

    The thing or me is...GGG can break him down over a period of time but we dont even know if he can outlast Serg over 12 or have that kind of stamina. If he soes start breaking Serg down...its at what cost? Maybe he knocks him down late but will he have taken too much damage prior to be able to finish him? Ultimately I think thats what ends up happening. He'd be so concentrated on breaking him down that he himself has suffered the same fate.


    I will go on the record as saying GGG beats this current legless and handless version of Sergio....and if he did beat Sergio in his pime it wouldnt be how most people seem to be sayin (with body shots). Its goin to be with very hard quiet jabs when Sergio is posing with his hands down and face out (so a lot lol). GGG will set everything up with the jab and lead him into single big shots. Lets face it...dude hits that hard and although we've seen Sergio take some nukes an not even flinch (how the F UCK did he not go down again in the 12th from those shots from Jr!?) we dont know how he takes GGGs.


    Here's another important factor and I know all fighters are brave..but its clear most are discouraged vs GGG. I dont think a Klitschko could discourage Sergio and he wouldnt go into a defense shell and just try to survive at the irst big shot he receives. Dudes not built like that apparently and sticks to the plan and fights. There's some guys with that other worldy pride and heart (JMM, Martinez come to mind) who you cant just out man with the threat of power.

    This is a reason I'm not sure I like a potential GGG vs Froch fight for GGG even though GGG is the more (seemingly) polished fighter.

    Anyway..long story short I think martinez is too complete at his best for a GGG who's full potential we havent seen (or have we?). I have to give props where due and Sergios movement, foot and hand speed, timing, accuracy, power and heart/toughness seem to carry the day FOR NOW.

    GGG seems like a stud (I'm one of the ones convinced he IS that good) but until we see him prove it against better fighters then we dont know. The Macklin win was great, now if he could get a few more with that type of competition or better then we'll see more. If only he could get a hold of Jr or Geale or Quillin we could make a much better assessment.
    Last edited by NearHypnos; 07-06-2013, 09:59 AM.

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    • mathed
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      #32
      A prime Sergio shows 3G things that he hasn't seen in almost 350 fights. 3G stalks but is unable to capitalize as Sergio is everywhere in the ring except 3G wants him to be. The jab and straight left to the body become a problem for 3G as the fight progresses.

      Sergio UD

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      • Simurgh
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        #33
        Originally posted by gmc_rfc_06
        That pattern exists because it's there. GGG's doing what he's supposed to do and beating guys he is supposed to beat.

        Check the threads; I had Macklin getting stopped inside 6 as his style was all wrong against GGG and I never gave Rosado even a slight chance.

        I think GGG is very good, but I'd have him losing VERY wide to Ward, also getting beat via UD against Froch and Prime Martinez. All of those guys like come forward fighters, GGG is that, albiet a very good one.
        Ok that's your opinion. I beg to differ. There is no way to say who is right atm, as GGG didn't fight them yet.

        I believe GGG will be great, ATG fighter and I want to be a fan of that at the beginning not when he is 37 and beat them all and has a 1-2 more fights.

        time will tell...

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        • Simurgh
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          #34
          Originally posted by NearHypnos
          Ggg can cut the ring off retreating..slow footed guys who cant exactly fight off the back foot to begin with.

          You cant just talk about what GGG does without taking into account what Sergio does. GGG has brutal body shots but people forget Sergios body work which has broken down every fighter hes fought. And from long range with a dagger like left straight. GGG has appeared to be a tank but it literally wouldnt surprise me if Sergio badly busted up GGGs face over 12. GGG might have that clubbing power, but when has martinez been accused of being a soft puncher?

          What people dont realize is that martinez at 160 has that freaky speed advantage much like GGG has that power advantage an Chavez Jr a size advantge. Almost unnatural for the weight class. Martinez does get hit, but most times he's leaning away. Sergios movement doesnt come from his feet alone because he does change direction fast as f uck but it's also his upper body movement while being able to throw punches. GGG isnt super slow but he's considerably slower. He's going to have to walk through a lot of punishment to catch Sergio and once he does he might STILL get out fought and pushed back. GGG has seemed solid but we've seen him temporarily stopped in his tracks by lesser punchers and fighters even if it was brief.

          As much as I like GGG and thinks he's a stud he just doesnt SEEM to have (not saying he doesnt but just appears to at this stage) the skill to avoid Sergios best.

          He's going to get hit by long range powerful one twos through the guard and lefts to the stomach, get hit with combinations at mid range using his upper body movement along with swiping hooks around the guard to spin GGG or initiate a clinch from up close to do the same or he'll fight very close where GGG cant get ALL his power off.

          The thing or me is...GGG can break him down over a period of time but we dont even know if he can outlast Serg over 12 or have that kind of stamina. If he soes start breaking Serg down...its at what cost? Maybe he knocks him down late but will he have taken too much damage prior to be able to finish him? Ultimately I think thats what ends up happening. He'd be so concentrated on breaking him down that he himself has suffered the same fate.


          I will go on the record as saying GGG beats this current legless and handless version of Sergio....and if he did beat Sergio in his pime it wouldnt be how most people seem to be sayin (with body shots). Its goin to be with very hard quiet jabs when Sergio is posing with his hands down and face out (so a lot lol). GGG will set everything up with the jab and lead him into single big shots. Lets face it...dude hits that hard and although we've seen Sergio take some nukes an not even flinch (how the F UCK did he not go down again in the 12th from those shots from Jr!?) we dont know how he takes GGGs.


          Here's another important factor and I know all fighters are brave..but its clear most are discouraged vs GGG. I dont think a Klitschko could discourage Sergio and he wouldnt go into a defense shell and just try to survive at the irst big shot he receives. Dudes not built like that apparently and sticks to the plan and fights. There's some guys with that other worldy pride and heart (JMM, Martinez come to mind) who you cant just out man with the threat of power.

          This is a reason I'm not sure I like a potential GGG vs Froch fight for GGG even though GGG is the more (seemingly) polished fighter.

          Anyway..long story short I think martinez is too complete at his best for a GGG who's full potential we havent seen (or have we?). I have to give props where due and Sergios movement, foot and hand speed, timing, accuracy, power and heart/toughness seem to carry the day FOR NOW.

          GGG seems like a stud (I'm one of the ones convinced he IS that good) but until we see him prove it against better fighters then we dont know. The Macklin win was great, now if he could get a few more with that type of competition or better then we'll see more. If only he could get a hold of Jr or Geale or Quillin we could make a much better assessment.
          Nice comparison, but there is a one thing I don't like in here...

          When Genady beats Martinez many will say it's because it's not 'the same Martinez' and the talk about how 'prime Martinez' would do better will remain.
          That's why I prefer Genady fights other prime best fighters. I like Andre - GGG in year or two. That's the fight that will show how great GGG really is. Whatever else he does people won't give him a full credit.

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          • Simurgh
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            #35
            Originally posted by mathed
            A prime Sergio shows 3G things that he hasn't seen in almost 350 fights. 3G stalks but is unable to capitalize as Sergio is everywhere in the ring except 3G wants him to be. The jab and straight left to the body become a problem for 3G as the fight progresses.

            Sergio UD
            If GGG beats Sergio in the next 6-12 months and if Sergio doesn't appear to be any different than lets say in Chavez fight, would you give a full credit to GGG and admit he is just better of two?

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            • gmc_rfc_06
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              #36
              Originally posted by Simurgh
              If GGG beats Sergio in the next 6-12 months and if Sergio doesn't appear to be any different than lets say in Chavez fight, would you give a full credit to GGG and admit he is just better of two?
              If Sergio can regain even 80% of that, I'll be very happy, but also very surprised.

              He's almost 40, just had a major knee surgery, looked badly faded in his return and then has needed a full year to be ready to fight again. I fear the end for Sergio is very close, I feared that the moment I heard about his knee.
              Last edited by gmc_rfc_06; 07-06-2013, 11:27 AM.

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              • Simurgh
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                #37
                Originally posted by gmc_rfc_06
                If Sergio can regain even 90% of that, I'll be very happy, but also very surprised.

                He's almost 40, just had a major knee surgery, looked badly faded in his return and then has needed a full year to be ready to fight again. I fear the end for Sergio is very close, I feared that the moment I heard about his knee.
                So in other words, GGG shall receive little to none credit if he beats present Sergio?

                That's why I say forget Sergio and go for Andre/Froch/Quillin/Canelo...

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                • gmc_rfc_06
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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Simurgh
                  So in other words, GGG shall receive little to none credit if he beats present Sergio?

                  That's why I say forget Sergio and go for Andre/Froch/Quillin/Canelo...
                  If it's the Sergio of the Murray fight who wasn't in his usual shape, looked slower and lacked sharpness then he would get credit for the name...same way some give Murray credit for beating that version of Sergio in their opinion.

                  It all depends entirely on how he looks in this 2014 return fight.

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                  • boliodogs
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                    #39
                    I voted GGG beats any Sergio. I think GGG would KO any Martinez with no problem. Martinez has been knocked down and hurt by guys like Williams, Macklin and Murray that don't hit nearly as hard or fight as well as GGG.Martinez is a 154 pounder that won the world middleweight title and beat some pretty good fighters as champion.I think GGG would also KO anybody that Martinez ever fought including the iron jawed but so easy to hit Chavez. I don't think GGG will lose any fights for years no matter who he fights.

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                    • Evil Abed
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                      #40
                      Sergio has timing issues in all of his fights. Takes him awhile to find the sweet spot. Unless your careless like PW in the second fight.

                      I think Golovkin gets Sergio with that power jab and body shots and before Sergio can come on strong late he's been broken down and gets stopped.

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