Reason's Why Wladimir Klitschko Is Not An ATG

[BattlingNelson]

I dont know that he was or wasn't. but don king got fights made where wlad's management hasn't.

Believe me he did not. Ask Tim Witherspoon and others.

Was it an alleged slavecontract that kept a Wlad-Povetkin fight from happening a couple of years ago? No it wasn't. Despite legitimitely fighting his way towards the no. 1 contender spot, Povetkins handlers din't think he was ready.

So no. You are wrong and I am right.

[BattlingNelson]

Muhammad Ali
Jack Dempsey
Gene Tunney
Joe Louis
Rocky Marciano
Evander Holyfield
Lennox Lewis
George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Larry Holmes
Mike Tyson
Jack Johnson
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe Walcott
Rid**** Bowe


That's excluding a few others that could easily sneak in there. Bowe deliberately included for the lulz.

What an utter joke of a list. At least if they are supposed to be better than Wlad.

How's Charles resume better than Wlad's? Walcott? No. Tyson is a reach that you wouldn't find much support for. Tunney? No way. Dempsey? Perhaps, but not a given. Holyfield? Possibly. I do not rank him that high because of all his losses and his roid abuse. Lewis? Wlad's resume is close.

I'm not touching Bowe.

The rest I agree with.

[LELBRON]

If guys like Walcott, Baer, Patterson, Schmelling etc. can be classed asATG's, i don't see how Wlad isn't. I think he can be placed in about the same region as these gentlemen. Even though he lacks the signature win(s) over an elite HW, the # of legit, world rated contenders he's defeated over the years has to be taken into account. Even though this is probably the worst selection of Heavyweight contenders in the past 80 years.

But i have a problem with rating him among the elite of the elite in the division without him even once sharing the ring with an elite Heavyweight.

[DreamFighter]

personally I am not sure why Baer and Patterson can be classed as ATG myself though!


Baer was a good champion, and a vicious opponent, but how does that make him an ATG or even a HOFer? Maybe he can claim a HoF place but I cant see why anyone would vote him in.


Patterson is an automatic HoFer for landing the title so young but a ATG? No way, he did little else besides. Hes not one of the greatest.

Walcott on the other hand is a HoFer and def a ATG for what he achieved, ruling a division and then coming up with serious success against some of the best HWs ever.


So yeah if you wanted to class Patts and Baer as ATGs, then both Klits are ATG easy. But no one in their right mind can say that Floyd and Baer were 'greats' of the ring, they were fearsome in their own ways for sure, but they didn't do enough to warrant being the greatest ever of HW boxing.

So it must come down to your own definitions - if ATG means not bad to you, then I can see why you think the Klits are ATGs. But historically speaking they don't come close (yet).

[Ray Corso]

The biggest obsticle stopping him from being associated with great heavies is the fact he's fought no ATG fighters! Now thats not his fault because their aren't any avalible for years now!!
My reason deneying him as an ATG is simply evaluating his skills and over all talent! He falls short in so many facets of the game its hard to grade him as a top tier guy. I don't doubt his heart as many do and he comes to the ring in great condition and he's willing to sacrifice to win.
I've seen improvements in him but he's never added dimention to his style. He still remains painfully awkward in his form and I believe his height is his salvation. I do think he competes in any era but he would be at the lower end of the scale and he would suffer against the 15 round titlists greatly. They'd start their fighting around the 5th or 6th round and against quality punchers who would get under and around him he'd get stopped because he doesn't have any servival skills. Against second and top tier guys I could see him fighting for 8 to 10 yeares and being competitive but not defeating the more fierce fighters who won't stand in front and stare. Forman, a young Joe Frazier and young Mike Tyson , Marciano to Dempsey will come at him and look to get under and come up punching. He will get hit and once that assault starts he then will resort to his defense and thats where he lacks teaching and experience!! Once he steps off or back and can't fire or grab and hold he's in big trouble!! I think his chin is fine but when Forman and Joe Louis start knocking he's going to feel something he hasn't felt before!! He did get stopped by non-punchers! I don't dis-like Wlad or Vitali but I can't rate them high, top tier talents. Being able to compete on a high level is pretty damn good but that doesn't mean your great at what you do. Being in a great fight doesn't make you a great fighter either!!
Ray.

[Jedi Vader]

What an utter joke of a list. At least if they are supposed to be better than Wlad.

How's Charles resume better than Wlad's? Walcott? No. Tyson is a reach that you wouldn't find much support for. Tunney? No way. Dempsey? Perhaps, but not a given. Holyfield? Possibly. I do not rank him that high because of all his losses and his roid abuse. Lewis? Wlad's resume is close.

I'm not touching Bowe.

The rest I agree with.

Based on whom?

[D-MiZe]

What an utter joke of a list. At least if they are supposed to be better than Wlad.

How's Charles resume better than Wlad's? Walcott? No. Tyson is a reach that you wouldn't find much support for. Tunney? No way. Dempsey? Perhaps, but not a given. Holyfield? Possibly. I do not rank him that high because of all his losses and his roid abuse. Lewis? Wlad's resume is close.

I'm not touching Bowe.

The rest I agree with.

They all have at least a win against an opponent on a higher level than any of Wlad's or Vitali's. Their ability is proven against the best where as the Klitschko's reign in a weak era thus you can only speculate.

It's unfortunate but that's how it is.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I kinda agree, I wouldnt put Wlad or Vitali as an ATG,,

But he is a hall of famer,,, best of his era, but not one of the all-time best, just not in the same class as holmes, ali, holyfield, lewis, etc...

[Simurgh]

personally I am not sure why Baer and Patterson can be classed as ATG myself though!


Baer was a good champion, and a vicious opponent, but how does that make him an ATG or even a HOFer? Maybe he can claim a HoF place but I cant see why anyone would vote him in.


Patterson is an automatic HoFer for landing the title so young but a ATG? No way, he did little else besides. Hes not one of the greatest.

Walcott on the other hand is a HoFer and def a ATG for what he achieved, ruling a division and then coming up with serious success against some of the best HWs ever.


So yeah if you wanted to class Patts and Baer as ATGs, then both Klits are ATG easy. But no one in their right mind can say that Floyd and Baer were 'greats' of the ring, they were fearsome in their own ways for sure, but they didn't do enough to warrant being the greatest ever of HW boxing.

So it must come down to your own definitions - if ATG means not bad to you, then I can see why you think the Klits are ATGs. But historically speaking they don't come close (yet).

]

Wow. Although I don't agree with the Klitschko part I am amazed that you wrote a post without trashing klitschkos the way you normally do.

First time I see that. Kudos!

[yoz]

What an utter joke of a list. At least if they are supposed to be better than Wlad.

How's Charles resume better than Wlad's? Walcott? No. Tyson is a reach that you wouldn't find much support for. Tunney? No way. Dempsey? Perhaps, but not a given. Holyfield? Possibly. I do not rank him that high because of all his losses and his roid abuse. Lewis? Wlad's resume is close.

I'm not touching Bowe.

The rest I agree with.

I'm in partial agreement with this; but Lewis, GTFOH. IMO, a determined, focused Lewis is a contender for GOAT.