Who is/was the biggest fraud in boxing

[oldgringo]

Come on run...there's a time for being a stickler and theres a time for being a realist. You REALLY think that James Toney was all, "oh **** I gotta get me some anabolic steroids to make me bigger/faster/stronger so i can completely demolish this tough opponent john ruiz"...?

Or...

Does it sound more reasonable that he ignorantly took a supplement to help repair his bicep?

You tell me WHY he would want to PURPOSELY screw up his big shot at the heavyweight crown that he's been talking about for as long as I can remember?

[Run]

Come on run...there's a time for being a stickler and theres a time for being a realist. You REALLY think that James Toney was all, "oh **** I gotta get me some anabolic steroids to make me bigger/faster/stronger so i can completely demolish this tough opponent john ruiz"...?

Or...

Does it sound more reasonable that he ignorantly took a supplement to help repair his bicep?

You tell me WHY he would want to PURPOSELY screw up his big shot at the heavyweight crown that he's been talking about for as long as I can remember?

Fact: James Toney used anabolic steroids. The day that becomes acceptable....is the day hell freezes over.

Not only was it not an accusation...he was cold busted. Do I think he needed them? absolutely not. Do I think it completely tarnished his image as far as as being a fighter is concerned? you had better believe it.

He cheated by using anabolic steroids. I realize Toney is your guy...and you find my posts insulting. I'm only relaying facts...facts being he cheated.

As far as the bolded text is concerned.....My guess is as good as yours. He won the WBA title...and was stripped for being a cheater.

A cheater is a fraud in my book.



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[BadMagick]

I realize you are mad...that I pointed out what a hypocrite you are....so just save all the typing. I don't think I'll even bother reading your contradictory posts anymore.

That's what you do, because you simply can't answer. You're just not well enough informed to be able to actually debate a topic with someone. Whenever another person brings up facts, cold, hard facts, that contradict what you think you give up, and then play some childish (yet incredibly half-assed) games with them. RwK: "You don't know what you're talking about, Wladimir has only been down once in his career!"
Person: "Actually, he was floored FIVE times against Peter, TKO'ed by Brewster and Corrie Sanders, and has definitely been wobbled in other fights."
RwK: "I'm done, because I can no longer stand to see that I simply don't know what I'm talking about, and EVERYONE on this forum knows more than me."

At any rate, since you simply cannot comprehend what others write, I'm just going to let you wallow in ignorance, grabbing on the nuts of neverweres, and bashing on all time greats.

I'd like to finish my post in saying that there is absolutely no contradiction in anything I have said regarding steroids. There is a difference in taking a steroid in a sport where it will actually help your performance, such as baseball, football, basketball, and one where it is simply not going to do anything for you, especially when power is not your strong point to begin with, such in the case of boxing, and more specifically James Toney. And, as to nandrolone, here's an article everyone should read: http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/nandrolone/nandj.htm

A quick quote: A much more likely theory has recently emerged from the results of a preliminary investigation at Aberdeen University. The findings are that dietary supplements themselves are harmless and produce no increased levels of nandrolone. Exercise alone, too, doesn't cause any problems. But a combination of both dietary supplements (none of which contain a banned substance) and exercise, can result in a positive nandrolone test. The reason for this is still unclear, but one theory is that there is a link between heavy training, the dehydration that goes with it, and their effects upon the components of high protein diets. Until more work is done, however, the 'nandrolone mystery' goes on...

[oldgringo]

Fact: James Toney used anabolic steroids. The day that becomes acceptable....is the day hell freezes over.

Not only was it not an accusation...he was cold busted. Do I think he needed them? absolutely not. Do I think it completely tarnished his image as far as as being a fighter is concerned? you had better believe it.

He cheated by using anabolic steroids. I realize Toney is your guy...and you find my posts insulting. I'm only relaying facts...facts being he cheated.

As far as the bolded text is concerned.....My guess is as good as yours. He won the WBA title...and was stripped for being a cheater.

A cheater is a fraud in my book.

You dodged everything I asked you. The only thing that irks me here is that you are making it out like he INTENTIONALLY cheated to get a leg up on the competition.

Why would he take em? He knows he's going to be tested after the fight. He's not a maniac...so why why why?

[BadMagick]

You dodged everything I asked you. The only thing that irks me here is that you are making it out like he INTENTIONALLY cheated to get a leg up on the competition.

Why would he take em? He knows he's going to be tested after the fight. He's not a maniac...so why why why?

He won't answer because he can't, because he simply doesn't know. Just like he dodges every point I ever bring up, and rather quotes some obscure thing that I wrote about Barry Bonds being a steroid pumping cheater in a game where it would actually help. He simply can't answer you.

It is HIGHLY unlikely that James Toney would have intentionally taken a steroid, HIGHLY. Read the articly I posted, too, you might find it interesting.

[Run]

You dodged everything I asked you. The only thing that irks me here is that you are making it out like he INTENTIONALLY cheated to get a leg up on the competition.

Why would he take em? He knows he's going to be tested after the fight. He's not a maniac...so why why why?

Let me make myself clear.

There is no possible way for me to sift through Toney's pyschosis and figure out exactly whe HE CHEATED.

I'll state it again. Fact: He used anabolic steroids and that is considered cheating.

There is absolutely no defense in this case...because this is not a case filled with accusations. It's filled with medical evidence and a confession by the fighter in discussion.



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[oldgringo]

Let me make myself clear.

There is no possible way for me to sift through Toney's pyschosis and figure out exactly whe HE CHEATED.

I'll state it again. Fact: He used anabolic steroids and that is considered cheating.

There is absolutely no defense in this case...because this is not a case filled with accusations. It's filled with medical evidence and a confession by the fighter in discussion.

You've made yourself clear on that. You aren't speaking with some half-wit here.

I'm going to sign-off on this by taking your inability to give me a REASONABLE answer to my question as a sign that you understand what I'm saying.

[Run]

You've made yourself clear on that. You aren't speaking with some half-wit here.

I'm going to sign-off on this by taking your inability to give me a REASONABLE answer to my question as a sign that you understand what I'm saying.

Dude....I already answered you.

I clearly stated I have no idea why Toney would jeopardize that. And I wasn't trying to patronize you by repeating sentences.



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[oldgringo]

Dude....I already answered you.

I clearly stated I have no idea why Toney would jeopardize that. And I wasn't trying to patronize you by repeating sentences.

Well I said I was going to leave it alone, but **** it.

That's what I meant by not answering my question. You are answering me like a robotic judge.


"I'll state it again. Fact: He used anabolic steroids and that is considered cheating.

There is absolutely no defense in this case...because this is not a case filled with accusations. It's filled with medical evidence and a confession by the fighter in discussion."

I was asking you to be reasonable and make your own decision about it...not hide behind the "he took illegal drugs hes a fraud" thing. Yes that sounded a bit patronizing, but I'm a grown ass man it's no biggie.

Fact shows that he took an illegal substance yes. Reason however, points towards him most-likely unknowingly taking a supplement to repair his bicep. Like you half-heartedly agreed with...theres NO logical reason he'd do it on PURPOSE.

The sole purpose for me even debating about this is to get you to admit that he didn't take illegal steroids on purpose to get a leg up on the competition.

[Run]

Like you half-heartedly agreed with...theres NO logical reason he'd do it on PURPOSE.

Ok. I see exactly what you are getting at...but let me ask you a serious question.

By him unknowingly recieving steroid suppliments, does that clear him from wrong doing?



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