Should David Haye get another Wlad shot?

[JAB5239]

No it is not..
BUT.. and it's a BIG BUT..

What are the reasons rematches are usually staged?

- The fight was all action for however long it lasted (fans justifyingly demand it)
- The fight was close and could have gone either way
- The winner was losing on the cards but scored a flukey KO
- The fight was stopped due to injury
- The fight was stopped due to cuts
- The fight was controversial i.e. the winner clearly got shafted by incompetent or corrupt judging
- The fighter has matured boxing wise since the previous fight

The question is SHOULD Haye get a rematch but really the question is.. Does Haye Deserve a rematch..

Let's examine the points listed above.

- The fight was not a barn burner by any means
- The fight was a near shutout on all 3 cards
- There was no Hail Mary KO
- There was no non boxing related injury (if Haye's toe was so bad he should have postponed)
- There no were no major cuts
- Nobody in their right mind could say Haye got shafted by incompetent or corrupt judging thus no controversy to speak of
- Haye has fought once since Kiltschko, beating a guy who had lost 3 of his last 4 fights showing no signs of being any different a fighter than he has always been

What Grounds does Haye have to stand on asking for a rematch?


He delivered what he always a delivers.. A boxing clinic. He moved forward and brought the fight to Haye for 12 rounds.

I agree with everything you said except Wlad delivering. He didn't cut off the ring, he followed Haye around and was content to jab his way to a boring albeit unanimous decision. He could have done so much more be he seemed afraid to take chances. And if the WBA sees fit to grant Haye another shot than so be it. If they don't I'm fine with that too. I've been pretty vocal about ALL contenders fighting the best to earn their right. I just won't sit by though and say one guy can do one thing but another can't. There should be the same set of standards for all contenders and champions alike.

[Welter_Skelter]

I agree with everything you said except Wlad delivering. He didn't cut off the ring, he followed Haye around and was content to jab his way to a boring albeit unanimous decision. He could have done so much more be he seemed afraid to take chances. And if the WBA sees fit to grant Haye another shot than so be it. If they don't I'm fine with that too. I've been pretty vocal about ALL contenders fighting the best to earn their right. I just won't sit by though and say one guy can do one thing but another can't. There should be the same set of standards for all contenders and champions alike.

Well the most important punch in Boxing is the jab.. I agree with what you are saying except that Wlad owned the center of the ring for all 12 rounds. He moved forward for all 12 rounds. I am sure he tried to KO Haye.. I give Haye his credit. He stayed out of Harm's way.. Not an easy thing to do for 12 rounds against a powerful accurate puncher.. But to resort to the tired argument that Wlad is boring is just irrelevant fallacy. It does not matter if he is boring.. What matters is winning.
Wlad is hardly unique fighting bums to stay active and earn money.. There really is no one left for him to fight.
Every division, except maybe 140-147 is pretty thin on ELITE talent.. When you have been champ for 7-8 years, you have two choices, Fight who you can or retire.. It's pointless fighting the same few guys year after year because they remain in the top 10 if you have already beaten them.. You do what every long reigning champ has done throughout history.. You pad your stats and cash in.. If you want to talk about the same standards why can't Wlad do what every other boxer (champ) not named Carl Froch does?

[JAB5239]

[QUOTE]

Well the most important punch in Boxing is the jab.. I agree with what you are saying except that Wlad owned the center of the ring for all 12 rounds. He moved forward for all 12 rounds. I am sure he tried to KO Haye.. I give Haye his credit. He stayed out of Harm's way.. Not an easy thing to do for 12 rounds against a powerful accurate puncher.. But to resort to the tired argument that Wlad is boring is just irrelevant fallacy. It does not matter if he is boring.. What matters is winning.

Boring is a matter of opinion. Mine is that he is very boring more times than not given his advantages in size and talent more times than not. That does not however stop me from recognizing he's an all time great who would be a top contender or champion in ANY era. As you said, winning is the bottom line.

Wlad is hardly unique fighting bums to stay active and earn money.. There really is no one left for him to fight.
Every division, except maybe 140-147 is pretty thin on ELITE talent.. When you have been champ for 7-8 years, you have two choices, Fight who you can or retire.. It's pointless fighting the same few guys year after year because they remain in the top 10 if you have already beaten them.. You do what every long reigning champ has done throughout history.. You pad your stats and cash in.. If you want to talk about the same standards why can't Wlad do what every other boxer (champ) not named Carl Froch does?

At the end of the day you're right. But that doesn't mean I like it anymore when past champions did it either. What I like even less though is nuthuggers who try and justify these fights as legitimate challengers though. I don't really blame Wlad most of the time, he plays the cards he was dealt. But for the love of god, please dont try and tell me this challenger or that challenger is legit because he's big and undefeated. I've been around boxing for 25 years and a fan even longer, I know a good fighter and I know a fighter who is just hyped based on a padded record. I just can't stand posters with an obvious agenda to make things look better than what they actually are. And Im not talking about you my friend. You post with a level head and I enjoy reading your opinions even if I don't always agree.

[Weltschmerz]

And what did Wlad deliver? He was just as much at fault for that travesty of a fight.

Wlad schooled and embarrassed Haye.

[yoz]

Wlad schooled and embarrassed Haye.

I'm a big Wladimir fan; but he didn't 'school' Haye.

He dominated the fight, sure; but Wlad was ultra conservative (understandable when you're in a with dangerous 'puncher'). Obviously it didn't help that Haye was on the run for 10 of the 12 rounds.

[gmc_rfc_06]

Wlad schooled and embarrassed Haye.

Wlad won clearly, but there was nothing close to that.

The fight ******, both guys fought with too much fear and there was very little in most of the rounds. Wlad landed 29 power shots all fight...

[Weltschmerz]

Wlad won clearly, but there was nothing close to that.

The fight ******, both guys fought with too much fear and there was very little in most of the rounds. Wlad landed 29 power shots all fight...

Wlad didn't fight with fear, he brought the fight to Haye most of the time and pressed the action throughout the bout. Haye, the challenger who said he would go in there and take Wlad's head off, failed to engage in the fight.

[Money Shot]

Wlad has looked good in his last three outings since but I'd fear another dull, tactical fight with Haye not delivering on his promises again.

[gmc_rfc_06]

Wlad didn't fight with fear, he brought the fight to Haye most of the time and pressed the action throughout the bout. Haye, the challenger who said he would go in there and take Wlad's head off, failed to engage in the fight.

Both of them fought with fear IMO.

Wlad was pressing forward, but 29 power shots tells the story. He was staying at safe distance and throwing little other than jabs which IMO was because he was worried about the right hand. Haye was the same, he was worried about the right hand and in turn was happy staying at distance....he had his hands down because he didn't worry about the jab, but Wlad didn't take the bait and kept his right hand at home.

I understand why they fought that way in fairness, you dont want to mess around with another big puncher, but man it was a borefest.

[JAB5239]

both of them fought with fear imo.

Wlad was pressing forward, but 29 power shots tells the story. He was staying at safe distance and throwing little other than jabs which imo was because he was worried about the right hand. Haye was the same, he was worried about the right hand and in turn was happy staying at distance....he had his hands down because he didn't worry about the jab, but wlad didn't take the bait and kept his right hand at home.

I understand why they fought that way in fairness, you dont want to mess around with another big puncher, but man it was a borefest.

^^^this^^^right^^^here^^^!!!