How did YOU score Matthysse vs Judah?

[Kagami Taiga]

Look up the threads from that fight and look at how many people call it a robbery. If you were here then you know that. Nobody is rewriting history, this was being said from day one. The video of the fights are on YouTube, anybody can see it was a robbery

What's impressive? The Judah fight was lackluster but all he was doing was spoiling and running, still one it clearly. Devon did the same, and Lucas kicked his ass, and that was right after his super fight. You know how styles affect fights, nobody like impressive against Devon

but look at the quality of posters who say it was in comparison to who said it wasnt. theres plenty of ppl on here who simply dont know the difference between a close fight and a robbery. its clear as day. and whats not impressive? having a close fight with zab judah. i mean i consider mathysse a boxer puncher. i think it best accurately describes his style. hes not that far off from miguel cotto in fact. a much younger cotto pretty much dominated a younger judah in an entertaining fight. sure, cotto is the better boxer but he also lacks the power mathysse has. after that fight, judah also got blasted by amir khan. different styles, i know. but it give more than enough room for pause for the hype. having a close fight with zab judah does not lend well to it at all. and like i said, i think hes a good fighter, maybe the best at 140, but hes not clearly better than any of the top fighters at that weight. its funny that ppl seem to think he is.

[Rome-By-Ko]

A thread with alot of people saying it's a robbery and most eveybody agreeing Lucas should have won. Look at this thread, people calling robbery, a couple saying Judah won but almost everyone agreeing Lucas won it.

That's not what I saw..But I did see I felt the fight was a draw the night of..Wow this fight feels like ages ago..

I'm going to watch this fight tomorrow..

[S. Saddler 1310]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here..

no kidding. "Matthysse's ability far outweighs the hype"? i guess that view depends on where you look. on boxing forums, his hype far outweighs his ability.

he's just another damn solid but methodical contender who can punch, but the forum cultists are touting him as this killer. the difference between myth and reality couldn't be better illustrated. sic balls, Choppy.

[Rome-By-Ko]

no kidding. "Matthysse's ability far outweighs the hype"? i guess that view depends on where you look. on boxing forums, his hype far outweighs his ability.

he's just another damn solid but methodical contender who can punch, but the forum cultists are touting him as this killer. the difference between myth and reality couldn't be better illustrated. sic balls, Choppy.

I can dig it brother..

[Rome-By-Ko]

My rd by rd..I'm watching the fight right now,as well..

Rd 1.Good rd for Zab imo..But Matt's worked his jab to the body as well tho..But all in all a Judah rd imo..

Rd 2.Zab's rd again imo,they are fighting at the pace that Judah wants..Some really good body shots in this rd for Lucas,not enough for me to give him the rd,but I see ya boy boy..Oh and really good corner work from team Matt's..I know that's Sergio's trainer I just forgot his name..That dude is a really good trainer,damn shame they won't let him back in the US..

Rd 3.I gave it to Matt's..Judah did not do enough this rd,he landed a solid uppercut(Zab)but not enough imo to win the rd..

Rd 4.A Judah rd imo,neither did very much,but I thought Judah landed the better punches throughout the rd..But this was a close rd imo..

Rd 5.Another Zab rd imo..Zab work the jab,moved around and controlled the pace of rd..I thought this was one of Zabs best rds so far,and clearly a rd he won..

Rd.6This was a Matt's rd imo..Outworked Judah by a lot..Landed some crushing body shots and some get work up top as well..Matt's rd imo..

Rd 7.I gave this rd to Judah,landed the more effective shots..Landed with the jab..Best punch of the rd was Matt's overhand right..But he was continuing to throw the body shots..I think Judah was catching a lot of them but good to see them back and consistent..Close rd,I like Judah's work better in it..

Rd 8.Another rd for Judah imo..Close rd tho,but imo Judah controlled it again..I also thought he landed the cleaner harder shots this rd as well..

Rd 9.Matt's rd,his work rate was back and up again..Landed good shot to the head and body..Zab also looked very fatigued in this rd,was not working much..Even Zabs movement became very sloppy..Very good come back rd for Matt's imo..

Rd 10.Clearly a Matt's rd,he scores a KD and seriously hurt Judah..Nice rd for Matt's..

Rd 11.Another rd I have to score for Matt's..Work rate hard shots to the head and body..I thought a clear Matt's rd..

Rd 12.Close rd,I gave it to Judah..Although avoiding,Matt's could not cut off the ring and I felt both of them landed pretty good shots..

But long story short,there was no robbery in this fight..it was nothing more then a close fight..

7-6 Judah..

[Russian Crushin]

My rd by rd..I'm watching the fight right now,as well..

Rd 1.Good rd for Zab imo..But Matt's worked his jab to the body as well tho..But all in all a Judah rd imo..

Rd 2.Zab's rd again imo,they are fighting at the pace that Judah wants..Some really good body shots in this rd for Lucas,not enough for me to give him the rd,but I see ya boy boy..Oh and really good corner work from team Matt's..I know that's Sergio's trainer I just forgot his name..That dude is a really good trainer,damn shame they won't let him back in the US..

Rd 3.I gave it to Matt's..Judah did not do enough this rd,he landed a solid uppercut(Zab)but not enough imo to win the rd..

Rd 4.A Judah rd imo,neither did very much,but I thought Judah landed the better punches throughout the rd..But this was a close rd imo..

Rd 5.Another Zab rd imo..Zab work the jab,moved around and controlled the pace of rd..I thought this was one of Zabs best rds so far,and clearly a rd he won..

Rd.6This was a Matt's rd imo..Outworked Judah by a lot..Landed some crushing body shots and some get work up top as well..Matt's rd imo..

Rd 7.I gave this rd to Judah,landed the more effective shots..Landed with the jab..Best punch of the rd was Matt's overhand right..But he was continuing to throw the body shots..I think Judah was catching a lot of them but good to see them back and consistent..Close rd,I like Judah's work better in it..

Rd 8.Another rd for Judah imo..Close rd tho,but imo Judah controlled it again..I also thought he landed the cleaner harder shots this rd as well..

Rd 9.Matt's rd,his work rate was back and up again..Landed good shot to the head and body..Zab also looked very fatigued in this rd,was not working much..Even Zabs movement became very sloppy..Very good come back rd for Matt's imo..

Rd 10.Clearly a Matt's rd,he scores a KD and seriously hurt Judah..Nice rd for Matt's..

Rd 11.Another rd I have to score for Matt's..Work rate hard shots to the head and body..I thought a clear Matt's rd..

Rd 12.Close rd,I gave it to Judah..Although avoiding,Matt's could not cut off the ring and I felt both of them landed pretty good shots..

But long story short,there was no robbery in this fight..it was nothing more then a close fight..

7-6 Judah..

You actually had it 6-6, giving Lucas the win

Rounds 1,2 you actually complimented Lucas on landing but give judah the rounds? How can you give an analysis of a round and give it to a fighter without saying what he actually did to win the round and gave the other guy the best punches? Saying "lucas didnt do enough" isnt a reason to give Judah the round. You have to say what Judah did to win that round.

Round 12, how can you give it to judah? He was on his bike getting chased, and held when close. He did nothing and Lucas didnt do much until the last min when he landed good shots to the chest, a bodyshot when zab tried to tie up and a few flurries, while zab didnt land anything. There was a flurry in the last 15 secs from zab that made the crowd ohh and aww but his combo didnt even reach Lucas. Thats an easy lucas round

Your analysis doesnt have any info on actual punches landed

[Rome-By-Ko]

You actually had it 6-6, giving Lucas the win

Rounds 1,2 you actually complimented Lucas on landing but give judah the rounds? How can you give an analysis of a round and give it to a fighter without saying what he actually did to win the round and gave the other guy the best punches? Saying "lucas didnt do enough" isnt a reason to give Judah the round. You have to say what Judah did to win that round.

Round 12, how can you give it to judah? He was on his bike getting chased, and held when close. He did nothing and Lucas didnt do much until the last min when he landed good shots to the chest, a bodyshot when zab tried to tie up and a few flurries, while zab didnt land anything. There was a flurry in the last 15 secs from zab that made the crowd ohh and aww but his combo didnt even reach Lucas. Thats an easy lucas round

Your analysis doesnt have any info on actual punches landed

Rds one and two,I thought Judah controlled pace and use his jab really well..But they were also close rds,Matt's landed some solid body shots in there as well..

I'm not going to go over every punch landed..So I give a summery of how I saw the rd..Once again(and get this through ya fuccking head please)everyone scores a fight and see's a fight how they see it..Your way of scoring or talking about a fight may differ from others..That's the way of the world..Be an adult and deal with it already..jeez..

The 12th I gave to Judah because he was effective at negating what Matt's wanted to do in there..Matt's did not cut off the ring,he chased and followed Judah..Judah did nothing you say,yet Judah hit Matt's with a few straight lefts..While Matt's work rate was still ok he did not land anything flush in the 12 while Judah landed 3 solid shots and(like I've already said)controlled Matt's..

I believe Matt's was excited and believe he could get Judah out of there and forgot about cutting the ring off..He got real sloppy in the 12th imo,and it coast him..BTW the judges all had really good and close scorecards I might add..

[Dr Rumack]

Thanks for posting your RBR Rome-By-TKO. I'll take the fourth round as an example of where there seems to be some difference.

Rd 4.A Judah rd imo,neither did very much,but I thought Judah landed the better punches throughout the rd..But this was a close rd imo..

Here's the thing. Judah lands almost nothing in this round. He scores with a nice double jab with about 30 seconds left, and he scores with a hook right before the bell. That's it though.

The best shot of the round by far is a Matthysse short right hand on the inside with about 2.42 on the clock. On top of that, Matthysse scores with three clear bodyshots in the second minute of the round, including a nice left uppercut to the right of Zab's body with about 1.23 on the clock.

The most prolonged exchange of the round comes in the 5 seconds before the bell. Matthysse steps to his left avoiding a Judah jab, and lands a right to Zab's stomach. Zab counters with his best shot of the round, a left hook, which Lucas answers with another straight right bodyshot. Zab tries to land another jab before the bell, but Lucas lands another straight right to the body.

If we are to score this round on punches landed, then it is a clear Matthysse round. Zab lands one power shot in the round.

I cannot see a way to give this round to Zab based on scoring shots. There is also no real way to award him the round on the basis of ring generalship, given that neither guy has real control in that respect. Zab throws a lot of air jabs, and Lucas throws a lot of bodyshots that Zab evades.

Again, it seems to come down to guys not scoring bodywork, which based on the arguments I've seen (and to be fair RBTKO is one of the very few who's offered one) seems to be the cause of a few people not seeing this fight for Lucas.

[Russian Crushin]

Rds one and two,I thought Judah controlled pace and use his jab really well..But they were also close rds,Matt's landed some solid body shots in there as well..

How can you win rounds for just controlling the pace while the other guy lands solid body punches on you?

I'm not going to go over every punch landed..So I give a summery of how I saw the rd..Once again(and get this through ya fuccking head please)everyone scores a fight and see's a fight how they see it..Your way of scoring or talking about a fight may differ from others..That's the way of the world..Be an adult and deal with it already..jeez..

Just saying "i think he did better is not analyzing a round tho. How did he do better? Everybody score fight different but you score fights without giving credit for punches landed. How can "controlling the pace" win rounds? Real boxers control the pace to land the better shots. This is the point im trying to make. Jabbing and running into the air cannot win you rounds unless it sets you up to land the better punches

The 12th I gave to Judah because he was effective at negating what Matt's wanted to do in there..Matt's did not cut off the ring,he chased and followed Judah..Judah did nothing you say,yet Judah hit Matt's with a few straight lefts..While Matt's work rate was still ok he did not land anything flush in the 12 while Judah landed 3 solid shots and(like I've already said)controlled Matt's..

I believe Matt's was excited and believe he could get Judah out of there and forgot about cutting the ring off..He got real sloppy in the 12th imo,and it coast him..BTW the judges all had really good and close scorecards I might add..

How can you give a guy rounds for negating the other guy from doing too much, even if he does more then you, meaning lands better punches? Who cares if Lucas didnt cut the ring off good? Judah was running so bad that round, it was embarrassing, that wasnt boxing. He also landed nothing and ran, so that means he wins the round? Lucas is the only one that landed punches in that round, judah landed a weak glancing jab at 1:15 while running away that he almost fell down. He tried a left at :44 and he threw it while trying to run again and it didnt reach his face but lampley made it as some huge punch. Right before that lucas landed a hard str8 right and a combo.....same with his left at the bell, it didnt reach lucas. Also judah's flurry consisted of punches that came nowhere close to reaching Lucas but the crowd ohh'd and aww'd

[Rome-By-Ko]

Thanks for posting your RBR Rome-By-TKO. I'll take the fourth round as an example of where there seems to be some difference.



Here's the thing. Judah lands almost nothing in this round. He scores with a nice double jab with about 30 seconds left, and he scores with a hook right before the bell. That's it though.

The best shot of the round by far is a Matthysse short right hand on the inside with about 2.42 on the clock. On top of that, Matthysse scores with three clear bodyshots in the second minute of the round, including a nice left uppercut to the right of Zab's body with about 1.23 on the clock.

The most prolonged exchange of the round comes in the 5 seconds before the bell. Matthysse steps to his left avoiding a Judah jab, and lands a right to Zab's stomach. Zab counters with his best shot of the round, a left hook, which Lucas answers with another straight right bodyshot. Zab tries to land another jab before the bell, but Lucas lands another straight right to the body.

If we are to score this round on punches landed, then it is a clear Matthysse round. Zab lands one power shot in the round.

I cannot see a way to give this round to Zab based on scoring shots. There is also no real way to award him the round on the basis of ring generalship, given that neither guy has real control in that respect. Zab throws a lot of air jabs, and Lucas throws a lot of bodyshots that Zab evades.

Again, it seems to come down to guys not scoring bodywork, which based on the arguments I've seen (and to be fair RBTKO is one of the very few who's offered one) seems to be the cause of a few people not seeing this fight for Lucas.

No problem man,good thread..

I give credit for body shots tho..But imo Zab caught a lot of those shots on his arms or just avoided them in general..I was impressed with how Zab kept his cool(not in rds 10 or 11 but you get what I mean),used his Jab(that landed with more consistency then your acknowledging)and had Matt's looking ineffective imo..I have to count both,jabs,just like I have to count rights to the body right??They are both being used effectively,so I look at who's being favored by the pace and action in the fight..That's clearly Judah in this rd bro..

Matt's while getting in a body shot(clearly)here or there is chasing(not cutting the ring off to then be more effective and in better position)and being hit with a jab and not inflecting punishment..I thought they fought how Zab wanted to fight in that rd,which is what I mean when I say,I thought it was a Judah rd..

I mean your way of scoring is not wrong and I'm not questioning it..But I'am questioning a robbery claim on this fight..