Roy Jones vs Martin Rogan in the works.....

[A-Wolf]

....How so?

Roy mentally and spiritually collapsing like a house of cards never again to recover after the Tarver KO doesn't sit well with some of us. He fought scared every time he stepped in the ring after that. Not sexy.

[Mr. Fantastic]

I disagree. Nothing changes what he's already accomplished.

Of course, no one can take what he has accomplished but you still gotta look at the overall picture and not just a piece of it.

[JAB5239]

Roy mentally and spiritually collapsing like a house of cards never again to recover after the Tarver KO doesn't sit well with some of us. He fought scared every time he stepped in the ring after that. Not sexy.

The Target ko should be held against him, but that was the beginning of a shot fighter. That means we should take his recent losses where he is obviously well past it and hold them against him?

[JAB5239]

Of course, no one can take what he has accomplished but you still gotta look at the overall picture and not just a piece of it.

Fighters are judged on who they beat and what they accomplished. You can look at the whole picture but nothing can take away from that. Should we rank Sven Ottke higher than Jones because he was undefeated? What about fighters who retired with one loss but who's resumes and accomplishments are not comparable?

[A-Wolf]

The Target ko should be held against him, but that was the beginning of a shot fighter. That means we should take his recent losses where he is obviously well past it and hold them against him?

No. He was not "shot." That's a mindless underdeveloped MYTH perpetuated by people like yourself. Jones still had significant handspeed and above average agility and athleticism still on display years later against fighters like Felix Trinidad and Joe Calzaghe. I'm calling bull****. Look at the situation a bit closer, my friend..

[JAB5239]

No. He was not "shot." That's a mindless underdeveloped MYTH perpetuated by people like yourself. Jones still had significant handspeed and above average agility and athleticism still on display years later against fighters like Felix Trinidad and Joe Calzaghe. I'm calling bull****. Look at the situation a bit closer, my friend..

You can call whatever you want, but his speed and reflexes were clearly diminished after he came back down after the Ruiz fight. And the fact that his whole style was predicated on his speed and reflexes shows he was far from the same fighter from just a few fights before.

[A-Wolf]

You can call whatever you want, but his speed and reflexes were clearly diminished after he came back down after the Ruiz fight. And the fact that his whole style was predicated on his speed and reflexes shows he was far from the same fighter from just a few fights before.

NO you can call it whatever you want. LMAO off at people like you claiming he was "shot" immediately following the Ruiz match. Complete horse****. He was "shot" the instant Tarver put his lights out. Boxing is 90% mental. Try to comprehend that. If you can. Roy Jones is living proof. Naseem Hamed is as well.

[JAB5239]

:smileysex

NO you can call it whatever you want. LMAO off at people like you claiming he was "shot" immediately following the Ruiz match. Complete horse****. He was "shot" the instant Tarver put his lights out. Boxing is 90% mental. Try to comprehend that. If you can. Roy Jones is living proof. Naseem Hamed is as well.

You should learn to read a little better. I never said he was shot immediately following Ruiz, I said it was the beginning of a shot fighter who's reflexes and speed were clearly not what they were prior to Ruiz. Lmao at people like you who try to rewrite history. If I'm not mistaken wasn't HBO's broadcast team talking about this during the first fight? Are you saying his speed and reflexes were the same?

[A-Wolf]

:smileysex

You should learn to read a little better. I never said he was shot immediately following Ruiz, I said it was the beginning of a shot fighter who's reflexes and speed were clearly not what they were prior to Ruiz. Lmao at people like you who try to rewrite history. If I'm not mistaken wasn't HBO's broadcast team talking about this during the first fight? Are you saying his speed and reflexes were the same?

Patently you're attributing Roy's loss to Tarver and subsequent losses based on him "slowing down" and "losing his reflexes." WHO IS TRYING TO REWRITE HISTORY HERE??? Good try, bro. Roy lost his confidence. Not his reflexes. Let's stay right on topic here.

[winky's right]

If Brian Nielsen finished his career 49-0 would he be greater than Sam Langford?

that was never my argument. my argument was that a hypothetical 49-0 Nielsen is greater than a hypothetical 49-10 Nielsen

Different things need to be taken into consideration. No matter how many times Jones loses now it won't change the fact he won titles at middle, super middle, light heavy and heavyweight.

of course they won't affect his achievements. but you need to understand the difference between legacy and achievements, and in the original post you replied to, Earl specifically said 'legacy' and not 'achievements'

It won't change the fact he is probably the best ever at 168, top 10 at 175 and during his prime the most gifted fighter most of us have seen live. How does being a shot fighter now change these things? Ali isn't judged by his fights with Holmes and Berbick.

if ali retired after Frazier III he would be greater

Louis isn't judged by Marciano. Pryor isn't judged by his last fight. The list is endless. Some fighters go on to long, that's life. You don't judge greatness by who is is now, but by who he was during his prime.

so by your logic, we shouldn't judge Hopkins' greatness now? since obviously he is way past his prime? you can't say that Hopkins' is allowed to enhance his legacy, while Jones Jr's legacy remains untouched. blatant fallacy if you do. like i said before, i just think there's a simple misunderstanding on your part between the difference of 'legacy' and 'achievement' (they are not the same)