Comments Thread For: Rigondeaux vs. Poonsawat in Play For December 15th

[kiaba360]

You value the Darchinyan win but you don't value the Perez win? Even though Perez nearly beat Mares? Agbeko's resume in the last couple years is better than Darchinyan's and of course much better than Poonsawat's.

Based on the quality/consistency of their resumes before and after, only the Darchinyan win is valuable to me. Perez drew with Mares, lost to Agbeko and then Vic got a win over him too. He's also been inactive for a year. At least Vic continued on fighting regardless if he lost or won. He's kept himself active and relevant in the sport. He beat Del Valle and got a WBA slot, and he's ranked #10 by the Ring. IDK if I agree with that though, since Orlandito is just a prospect.

AND, even IF Agbeko beat Mares and decided to move up, it still wouldn't sit well with me. This is what Agbeko's doing, "Move outta the way! I know all of you have been here longer than me, but I had success in the last division and I deserve a title shot right off the bat." He's still ranked as a bantamweight, while Poonsawat is ranked Ring #2 (excluding Nonito who's the champ) and WBA #3. He's in position to get a title shot, why should Agbeko be allowed to supersede him? It's become customary for fighters to win titles in one division, then vacate and move up, while continuing to fight for the same sanctioning body. Unlike Donaire/Broner and others, Agbeko hasn't done that. I don't like the tradition, but it's more palatable when the guy is coming off some wins or title defenses, rather than coming off a loss or lackluster performance.

The first fight I ever bet on (and it's when I really started paying attention to boxing and posting on NSB) was when Mares fought Agbeko the first time. Had no idea who was gonna win, looked at the records and where the fight was taking place. I picked Mares by decision, thinking not only is he Mexican, but he's a GBP fighter who also got a close win against Vic and a draw against Perez. After the match was over, I took a mental note of both fighters and was looking forward to the next one. It comes, and Mares wins pretty decisively (and without foolishness). I'm thinking, "King Kong will bounce back soon"......it's now a year later. Had he not called out Rigo, we would've thought he went the way of Joshua Clottey lmao. I was excited when he first called him out, but when I really started to analyze the landscape of 118/122, it wouldn't be "right" for him to get the shot when they're other capable opponents. IMO, Rigo would lose some credit for fighting a guy from a lower weight who's also coming off a couple losses. Poonsawat is a fool-proof match-up, and it's rare when the guy who "deserves", or is in the best position, to get a title shot actually receives it. You seem to hold losses to top fighters in the same regard as victories over top fighters, as long as the losses are close/competitive. I can't say I disagree, but inactivity is such a momentum killer, and that's exactly what happened to guys like Agbeko/Perez. So many fighters and match-ups to pay attention to and analyze, hence why the "what have you done for me lately" saying rings true.

If King Kong had bounced back in March and fought against anyone @122, got a victory, then fought someone relevant like Romero/Ndlovu, I would say that he's the 3rd best option behind Terrazas and Poonsawat. Hell, he would've put himself in line for an IBF title shot by the end of this year.

[4Corners]

What's funny is the Donaire fans saying "There's better fights out there", meanwhile he's fighting a guy who's only two losses were questionable to be fair, and is the #2 in the division right now.

But when you say to them "There's better fights for Donaire other than Vazquez Jr, Mathebula, Arce", they run to the defense and make those sound like huge wins for him.

And the difference is.....Rigondeaux has to scrap for the most part to get good fights around his weight. Donaire can fight ANYONE he wants around his weight, ANYONE.

[crold1]

What's funny is the Donaire fans saying "There's better fights out there", meanwhile he's fighting a guy who's only two losses were questionable to be fair, and is the #2 in the division right now.

But when you say to them "There's better fights for Donaire other than Vazquez Jr, Mathebula, Arce", they run to the defense and make those sound like huge wins for him.

And the difference is.....Rigondeaux has to scrap for the most part to get good fights around his weight. Donaire can fight ANYONE he wants around his weight, ANYONE.

Mathebula and Nishioka are strong wins. Vazquez and Arce are just there. I don't like either (before the former, leading to the latter). Rigo-Poon is an excellent match no matter where one thinks Poon should be rated at 22. Anyone trying to explain why it's not is full of it just as criticizing taking two straight against Math and Nishi were full of it.

[4Corners]

Mathebula and Nishioka are strong wins. Vazquez and Arce are just there. I don't like either (before the former, leading to the latter). Rigo-Poon is an excellent match no matter where one thinks Poon should be rated at 22. Anyone trying to explain why it's not is full of it just as criticizing taking two straight against Math and Nishi were full of it.

I didn't say anything about Nishioka, his best win this year. Mathebula was a solid/decent win. Vazquez Jr and Arce are ehhhh at best though.

I'm saying, people are trying to say Poonaswat isn't a good fight for Rigondeaux, but somehow they then say Mathebula was a good fight for Donaire. I think Poonaswat is better than Mathebula, just my opinion. But how can someoen try to discredit one and than credit the other??? They can't.

[crold1]

I didn't say anything about Nishioka, his best win this year. Mathebula was a solid/decent win. Vazquez Jr and Arce are ehhhh at best though.

I'm saying, people are trying to say Poonaswat isn't a good fight for Rigondeaux, but somehow they then say Mathebula was a good fight for Donaire. I think Poonaswat is better than Mathebula, just my opinion. But how can someoen try to discredit one and than credit the other??? They can't.

I hate the Arce fight. Uugh. Mayweather-Gatti II (but good cash so there you go). I agree. I think Math and Poon are both good foes. If Donaire were fighting Poon, I'd have no complaints. For a guy 11-0 to have Cordoba, Ramos and now Poon up (and a solid comer like Marroquin) is excellent.

[4Corners]

I hate the Arce fight. Uugh. Mayweather-Gatti II (but good cash so there you go). I agree. I think Math and Poon are both good foes. If Donaire were fighting Poon, I'd have no complaints. For a guy 11-0 to have Cordoba, Ramos and now Poon up (and a solid comer like Marroquin) is excellent.

At least Gatti was rated at 140 at the time. Arce hasn't really done jack since he upset Vazquez Jr a year and a half ago. But Donaire is going to KO Arce.

This would be Rigondeaux's third win over a Top 10 fighter at 122. Vazquez Jr had 0, Mathebula had 1, and Arce has 1.

[Light_Speed]

Based on the quality/consistency of their resumes before and after, only the Darchinyan win is valuable to me. Perez drew with Mares, lost to Agbeko and then Vic got a win over him too. He's also been inactive for a year. At least Vic continued on fighting regardless if he lost or won. He's kept himself active and relevant in the sport. He beat Del Valle and got a WBA slot, and he's ranked #10 by the Ring. IDK if I agree with that though, since Orlandito is just a prospect.

Vic remained active by getting shut out against Moreno, losing clearly to Yamanaka and beating an untested prospect. How does that make him more valuable than the man who beat him?

AND, even IF Agbeko beat Mares and decided to move up, it still wouldn't sit well with me. This is what Agbeko's doing, "Move outta the way! I know all of you have been here longer than me, but I had success in the last division and I deserve a title shot right off the bat." He's still ranked as a bantamweight, while Poonsawat is ranked Ring #2 (excluding Nonito who's the champ) and WBA #3. He's in position to get a title shot, why should Agbeko be allowed to supersede him? It's become customary for fighters to win titles in one division, then vacate and move up, while continuing to fight for the same sanctioning body. Unlike Donaire/Broner and others, Agbeko hasn't done that. I don't like the tradition, but it's more palatable when the guy is coming off some wins or title defenses, rather than coming off a loss or lackluster performance.

But that's exactly what the guy in your sig did against Pavlik. That's what Floyd did against Cotto, Marquez against Floyd, etc. Nothing wrong with an elite fighter getting a title shot in his first fight moving up.

Rankings don't mean **** to me unless you beat good fighters. Agbeko has beaten better fighters than Poonsawat and has lost to better fighters than Poonsawat has lost to.

The first fight I ever bet on (and it's when I really started paying attention to boxing and posting on NSB) was when Mares fought Agbeko the first time. Had no idea who was gonna win, looked at the records and where the fight was taking place. I picked Mares by decision, thinking not only is he Mexican, but he's a GBP fighter who also got a close win against Vic and a draw against Perez. After the match was over, I took a mental note of both fighters and was looking forward to the next one. It comes, and Mares wins pretty decisively (and without foolishness). I'm thinking, "King Kong will bounce back soon"......it's now a year later. Had he not called out Rigo, we would've thought he went the way of Joshua Clottey lmao. I was excited when he first called him out, but when I really started to analyze the landscape of 118/122, it wouldn't be "right" for him to get the shot when they're other capable opponents. IMO, Rigo would lose some credit for fighting a guy from a lower weight who's also coming off a couple losses. Poonsawat is a fool-proof match-up, and it's rare when the guy who "deserves", or is in the best position, to get a title shot actually receives it. You seem to hold losses to top fighters in the same regard as victories over top fighters, as long as the losses are close/competitive. I can't say I disagree, but inactivity is such a momentum killer, and that's exactly what happened to guys like Agbeko/Perez. So many fighters and match-ups to pay attention to and analyze, hence why the "what have you done for me lately" saying rings true.

If King Kong had bounced back in March and fought against anyone @122, got a victory, then fought someone relevant like Romero/Ndlovu, I would say that he's the 3rd best option behind Terrazas and Poonsawat. Hell, he would've put himself in line for an IBF title shot by the end of this year.

Rigo would get tons of credit for fighting Agbeko, because the guy actually beat elite fighters. You pay too much attention to rankings and titles and who is active and who has momentum. No offense but it's BS to me. You don't earn a shot by being a division for a long period of time and beating cans (and losing to some of them in the process). And I don't even think anybody has to "earn" their shot at Rigondeaux, he's the one who has to prove himself. Agbeko is battle tested, he actually gave Rigondeaux a nice opportunity to get an elite fighter on his resume and Rigo would have gotten more credit for that win.

What's funny is the Donaire fans saying "There's better fights out there", meanwhile he's fighting a guy who's only two losses were questionable to be fair, and is the #2 in the division right now.

But when you say to them "There's better fights for Donaire other than Vazquez Jr, Mathebula, Arce", they run to the defense and make those sound like huge wins for him.

I didn't think Vazquez Jr and Mathebula were good opponents for Donaire.

[crold1]

At least Gatti was rated at 140 at the time. Arce hasn't really done jack since he upset Vazquez Jr a year and a half ago. But Donaire is going to KO Arce.

This would be Rigondeaux's third win over a Top 10 fighter at 122. Vazquez Jr had 0, Mathebula had 1, and Arce has 1.

You're maybe being too religious with ratings (something I can do too so you're not alone). Context matters. Mathebula also probably deserved the Caballero fight. He was clearly good. Arce...meh, but that one win was as good anything most (if not all) of the division has done the last couple years. It's even better than anything Poon has done the last couple years (even if I think Poon is a better fighter at this point). Poon is up because other people lost. Not because he's done anything great. In a deeper division, Rigo wouldn't be at 1 either. Nishi had a long title reign and some quality wins during a generally down period for 122 between the last hot spot and this one that's erupting. That merited his place at the top and I'm glad Donaire took care of him. That's how it should work.

But I agree that, when you start to rack up contenders, the math starts to matter. The only guy AT 22 who would be acceptable competition-wise for Donaire if Rigo beats a live guy in December (Poon or otherwise), is the Mares-Moreno winner. That guy might not have math at 22, but they'd be the more proven pro period. Since the promotional issues probably preclude that, there's Rigo.

BUT, Rigo has to win.

[.:: JSFD26 ::.]

I think I figured out what the problem is. Poon never faced and beat Marquez.


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[deejd]

So many fighters and match-ups to pay attention to and analyze, hence why the "what have you done for me lately" saying rings true.

If only NSB understood this... then Nishi wouldn't have become an overnight superstar the day he signed for Donaire. But then again, it was spectacular how he beat a 37-year-old battle-worn Rafa Marquez in such dramatic fashion.