Is RJJ overrated?

[Mr. Fantastic]

Lol he was a great athlete therefore somehow that equates into being a four division monster for 15 years.

Allen Iverson was a great athlete in his prime, think he could dominate the sport for fifteen years?

You think setting traps, using feints, timing, counterpunching, adapting, anticipating, understanding how and when to slip and block punches is all.......... Athletic qualities?

Alright.

Well it's not working for him now is it? Just like I do with others(even boxers I love/like), his losses now should affect his legacy. He should of retired long time ago. Again it's my opinion and you have a totally different one.

[lparm]

Lol he was a great athlete therefore somehow that equates into being a four division monster for 15 years.

Allen Iverson was a great athlete in his prime, think he could dominate the sport for fifteen years?

You think setting traps, using feints, timing, counterpunching, adapting, anticipating, understanding how and when to slip and block punches is all.......... Athletic qualities?

Alright.

Well let's be fair he was hardly fighting killers every fight. He fought some very good/great fighters like Toney, Hop, McCallum but he did get in there with a few Ricky Fraizer type guys too over the years.

We have to be consistent with all fighters. One can't feast on journeymen and be an ATG while another guy does it and gets trashed.

[THE REED]

Well it's not working for him now is it? Just like I do with others(even boxers I love/like), his losses now should affect his legacy. He should of retired long time ago. Again it's my opinion and you have a totally different one.

Up until Tarver 3.... At that point he was 37 with two devastating knockout losses and clearly wasnt the same fighter... Hell he clearly wasnt the same fighter when he was exhausted in Tarver one by round 4, in a fight where Tarver was boxing, not pressuring. After Tarver 3, you realize the guys past prime or shot... Not everyone has the chin and durability of an Ali.

He still had the knowledge of setting traps, but his legs were gone, he was old, couldnt execute like every other fighter whose had over 50 pro fights at his age gets...

Well let's be fair he was hardly fighting killers every fight. He fought some very good/great fighters like Toney, Hop, McCallum but he did get in there with a few Ricky Fraizer type guys too over the years.

We have to be consistent with all fighters. One can't feast on journeymen and be an ATG while another guy does it and gets trashed.

Name a fighter in the history of the sport who hasnt fought there share of bums...

..........

He fought the best fighter at mw who went on to dominate mw for the next 12 years, he dominated the best undefeated smw, he captured seven titles holding them all at the same time at lhw, and fought SEVEN of the TEN ranked LHWs between 98 and 03 and he fought a top five HW, coming from MW and won.

Sure he fought Ricky Frazier, everyone has fought their share of Ricky fraziers... Ali, SRR,Leonard, Whitaker, Foreman, Louis... Everyone..... Everyone.

[lparm]

Up until Tarver 3.... At that point he was 37 with two devastating knockout losses and clearly wasnt the same fighter... Hell he clearly wasnt the same fighter when he was exhausted in Tarver one by round 4, in a fight where Tarver was boxing, not pressuring. After Tarver 3, you realize the guys past prime or shot... Not everyone has the chin and durability of an Ali.

He still had the knowledge of setting traps, but his legs were gone, he was old, couldnt execute like every other fighter whose had over 50 pro fights at his age gets...




Name a fighter in the history of the sport who hasnt fought there share of bums...

..........

He fought the best fighter at mw who went on to dominate mw for the next 12 years, he dominated the best undefeated smw, he captured seven titles holding them all at the same time at lhw, and fought SEVEN of the TEN ranked LHWs between 98 and 03 and he fought a top five HW, coming from MW and won.

Sure he fought Ricky Frazier, everyone has fought their share of Ricky fraziers... Ali, SRR,Leonard, Whitaker, Foreman, Louis... Everyone..... Everyone.

At mw he did beat an ATG at that weight and gets full credit.

At SMW he beat a severely weight drained Toney who has said numerous times he was taking laxatives to cut weight before the fight (a little boxing history there). So does that make it RJJs fault? No, but should he get full credit for beating a guy that gave himself a disadvantage? Well your answer is probably the same on if Ward gets credit for beating a weight drained Dawson.

At lt heavy. Full credit 100%. Arguably his best stretch of his career even with a Ricky Frazier fight.

At hw. Who did he fight? It sure as hell wasn't the champ Lennox or anyone near the champ ala either Klit.

Yes every fighter has journeymen on their resume and some more than others but again we have to be consistent in criticizing one over another.

[THE REED]

First of all... Name a fight Toney fought under 200lbs where he DIDNT have to cut weight?

Ill wait.

How about the fact that just FOUR months prior to the Roy figt, Toney fought and won by knockout.

How about the fact he struggled with his weight since his debut but managed to go 44-0 regardless of weight struggles.

But all the sudden he fights a prime RJ and the WEIGHT is the reason he lost.... Yeah ok, who is really making the excuses.... He fought a better fighter and a style that his flat footed shoulder rolling style couldnt deal with.

A Toney that didnt cut weight or drain himself doesnt exist except for HW Toney.



On Ruiz.... He was a top 5 HW.. And its not so much about Ruiz being a killer as it is about Roy coming from 154lbs... About Ruiz weighing upwards of 30lbs more than Roy, and the fact that Ruiz showed the power to knock down Evander Holyfield, and now Roy was about to risk being hit by those same punches... And he did take them.

If Roy was a career heavyweight, having ruiz on his resume would be whatever... Its the fact that he came from being MW champion, to fighting and beating a top five hw that makes the win very good.

Not too mention after putting the weight on, taking it off and fighting the new #1 LHW and winning, barely.. But gutting it out and winning.

[lparm]

First of all... Name a fight Toney fought under 200lbs where he DIDNT have to cut weight?

Ill wait.

How about the fact that just FOUR months prior to the Roy figt, Toney fought and won by knockout.

How about the fact he struggled with his weight since his debut but managed to go 44-0 regardless of weight struggles.

But all the sudden he fights a prime RJ and the WEIGHT is the reason he lost.... Yeah ok, who is really making the excuses.... He fought a better fighter and a style that his flat footed shoulder rolling style couldnt deal with.

A Toney that didnt cut weight or drain himself doesnt exist except for HW Toney.



On Ruiz.... He was a top 5 HW.. And its not so much about Ruiz being a killer as it is about Roy coming from 154lbs... About Ruiz weighing upwards of 30lbs more than Roy, and the fact that Ruiz showed the power to knock down Evander Holyfield, and now Roy was about to risk being hit by those same punches... And he did take them.

If Roy was a career heavyweight, having ruiz on his resume would be whatever... Its the fact that he came from being MW champion, to fighting and beating a top five hw that makes the win very good.

Not too mention after putting the weight on, taking it off and fighting the new #1 LHW and winning, barely.. But gutting it out and winning.

Correct me if I'm wrong about Toney having weight issues against Jirov. You know the fight he was 2lbs under the 190lbs cruiser limit.

The point is being weight drained does affect a fighter period. It effected Toney, it effected Dawson recently, it effects them all. If he struggled to make weight that's one issue but Toney has said time and time again he was dehydrated from the laxatives. I don't care how good you are dehydration is deadly to anyone from a guy in the street on a hot day to the fighter in the ring who has a prime athlete punching him. It's dangerous.

As for Ruiz you are reaching and he only qualifies in this terribly weak era as a top 5 hw. Even back to the early 90s Ruiz doesn't crack the top 10. He was a beneficiary of poor competition. If you consider Ruiz a hw champion and not merely a fighter that held a belt based solely on the true champion's decision to not waste time on 2nd tier guys then you need to study up on hw boxing. But no doubt you know Ruiz' place in the peaking order and like to use his paper title as proof of RJJ the guy that came up from 175 lbs not 154 to win a hw "title."

If RJJ gets credit for moving from mw to hw to win a title then Manny should get equal credit for moving from 108 to 147 how many weight classes is that jump?

Pretty impressive.

[-Kev-]

well he ko'd thulani malinga in a tune up fight and malinga had just beaten benn and eubank but didn't get the decision in either fight. i know that's not as good as beating jeff left hook lacy or peter manfredo but its alright.

Roy Jones Jrs resume is severely underrated. His resume is filled with guys who are called bums or not even mentioned at all. But these "bums" beat the so called guys that Roy ducked. Yeah, triangle theories don't work, I agree. But if Roy beat bums, and these bums are beating the European heroes of the 168 division, then what does that make the European fighters of the 90s in 168?

[edgarg]

First of all... Name a fight Toney fought under 200lbs where he DIDNT have to cut weight?

Ill wait.

How about the fact that just FOUR months prior to the Roy figt, Toney fought and won by knockout.

How about the fact he struggled with his weight since his debut but managed to go 44-0 regardless of weight struggles.

But all the sudden he fights a prime RJ and the WEIGHT is the reason he lost.... Yeah ok, who is really making the excuses.... He fought a better fighter and a style that his flat footed shoulder rolling style couldnt deal with.

A Toney that didnt cut weight or drain himself doesnt exist except for HW Toney.



On Ruiz.... He was a top 5 HW.. And its not so much about Ruiz being a killer as it is about Roy coming from 154lbs... About Ruiz weighing upwards of 30lbs more than Roy, and the fact that Ruiz showed the power to knock down Evander Holyfield, and now Roy was about to risk being hit by those same punches... And he did take them.

If Roy was a career heavyweight, having ruiz on his resume would be whatever... Its the fact that he came from being MW champion, to fighting and beating a top five hw that makes the win very good.

Not too mention after putting the weight on, taking it off and fighting the new #1 LHW and winning, barely.. But gutting it out and winning.

I agree with everything you say about Jones, and even about Toney. All the weight drain stories came AFTER the fight, and he's always had weight trouble, not just for Jones and it hadn't prevented him from winning...he had a 44-0 record until the Jones fight where he didn't win a round. .That can only be eplained in one way. A fighter of Toney's great skills could have won 3-4 rounds before fading if it was due to weight drain. Toney didn't win one, and was made look completely ****** the whole fight. Jones, a one of a kind boxer.

You have underestimated Ruiz. He was a long-time heavyweight Champion, whom a few of the other champions ducked-not mentioning any names- and a very comptent fighter, and, as you say a lot taller and 30 lbs heavier. he had a 40-4 record and was the reigning champ with around a dozen title defences, of which he'd lost a couple and regained his title. But Jones, absolutely outclassed him, as he'd been doing to every other opponent for the previous 15 years. He toyed with them. I don't think ther's been such a dominant 10+ years since jack Johnson, who went 12 years unbeaten.

[edgarg]

Well let's be fair he was hardly fighting killers every fight. He fought some very good/great fighters like Toney, Hop, McCallum but he did get in there with a few Ricky Fraizer type guys too over the years.

We have to be consistent with all fighters. One can't feast on journeymen and be an ATG while another guy does it and gets trashed.

Who fights "killers" every fight.....whay should they?? Nobody fights killers every fight. He proved what he could do with killers if he had to, and that was evough for the fans.

[Jam Jars]

Roy Jones was good, but there is too many people that talk about him like he was unbeatable. If you look at his record and the fighters that were around at the time there's a lot of names missing.