If Roach Isn't A Great Trainer, Then Who Is?

[Uns]

The problem with discussions like these is defining the term great in the context of boxing.

Freddie Roach is great at what he does. Kev described that perfectly IMO.

McGirt is great at what he does: Plugging holes in a fighter's games and revamping their approach so that they maximize their tools. I feel that McGirt is greater at that than Roach.

They are both trainers, but what they offer IMO is different because of the emphasis placed on different things.

McGirt didn't raise Gatti or Tarver. He did however improve the things that brought them greater success. He's no miracle worker, and a lot of the improvement or lack thereof falls on the shoulders of his fighters. But when you're under McGirt, he gives a fighter a better chance of winning IMO.

Roach is better at matchmaking .. and because of this his fighters look better than McGirt's because McGirt's fighters are usually seeking the LEGITIMATE champion. While Roach's fighters mostly seek a paper champion or a vacant title to validate their status.

It is what it is.

I understand he is a great match maker but also he does give advice as Mcgirt does too.

For example in the Amir Pete rematch, Roach devised a plan to jab from a lower angle since Pete keeps his head low, and he wanted Amir to not bounce so much so he could see what was coming and throw harder. That was correct advice for me since Khan didn't jab too often but threw flurries that gas you. Khans jab is pretty damn good and even though flurries are good, it gets Khan tired and thus he runs because physically he can't handle a strong guy.

Whether Khan would do it or not, the advice is there.

For PAC I have seen him show PAC how to avoid the headbutts and made PAC aware of it. He also knows that Bradley is wide so And comes in with that right the way he does. That overhand right is Bradley money shot so I have a feeling PAC will counter it often because he literally ducks low not seeing what he does.

People do not seem to realise that Roach does teach certain things, but emphasises on their advantages.

Khans advantage is his speed and range, so roach tries to work on that even more. PAC has his speed and power, so he gets that going.

Say Buddy Mcgirt, IMO he doesn't work on flaws like any other trainer. Murray gassed hard vs Sturm, and VS martienz he slowed down too, but worse, and his defense was still poor. Paulie was getting hit at will by Khan's jab, I didn't see any adjustment to it.


You are clearly intelligent and I agree with you on what some trainers are good at, but I don't purely agree that Roach doesn't make small adjustments in fighters.

[Khalid X]

I dislike Roach but he is one of the best in the business and a HOF trainer.

If you notice, most of the people calling him overrated are Floyd fans. If Roger was getting the accolades then you would have these same posters putting him up there with guys like Futch, Cus, etc.

IMO the top trainers in boxing right now are:

Freddy Roach, Nacho Beristein, ****m Richardson, Robert Garcia, Miguel Diaz, and Ronnie Shields.

I really don't think any are better than the others, but I put those guys in the elite class of trainers today.

[-Kev-]

Freddie Roach aggressively chased after a De La Hoya fight. Not Pacquiao, not Arum, it was Freddie Roach.

Roach insulted DLH after DLH's face looked pretty ****** up against light hitting Steve Forbes at 150lbs. Roach says DLH can't pull the trigger anymore, he's old, and that Pacquiao would beat him. When the fight was signed and training camp started, Roach and Ariza said DLH was gasping for his breath after running and Ariza said DLH will be weight drained. This is what Roach was banking on but every one thought Roach was crazy. Everyone underestimated Roach the promoter/matchmaker.

The catchweight of 145 vs Cotto, after Cotto had just seemed to have lost to Clottey, that was Roach's idea too. The Margarito fight was more of Arum's idea, the 150lbs weight was Roach and Pac's idea.

Freddie Roach is a very intelligent coach, he's behind a lot more than just pads for Manny. The guy is a great matchmaker and he deserves his props.

Same for Khan, when Khan needed some rebuilding after Prescott. Who did they turn to? Freddie Roach the matchmaking genius. Old Barrera, light hitting Kotelnik, light hitting Salita, a big name but featherfist in Malignaggi. All of a sudden "Freddie Roach guidance and Alex Ariza's strength and conditioning has made Amir Khan's chin stronger",

Then comes Maidana, Team Khan beat him but go through a big scare and haven't fought a big puncher since. Only a faded Judah.

[Brother Jay]

I understand he is a great match maker but also he does give advice as Mcgirt does too.

For example in the Amir Pete rematch, Roach devised a plan to jab from a lower angle since Pete keeps his head low, and he wanted Amir to not bounce so much so he could see what was coming and throw harder. That was correct advice for me since Khan didn't jab too often but threw flurries that gas you. Khans jab is pretty damn good and even though flurries are good, it gets Khan tired and thus he runs because physically he can't handle a strong guy.

Whether Khan would do it or not, the advice is there.

For PAC I have seen him show PAC how to avoid the headbutts and made PAC aware of it. He also knows that Bradley is wide so And comes in with that right the way he does. That overhand right is Bradley money shot so I have a feeling PAC will counter it often because he literally ducks low not seeing what he does.

People do not seem to realise that Roach does teach certain things, but emphasises on their advantages.

Khans advantage is his speed and range, so roach tries to work on that even more. PAC has his speed and power, so he gets that going.

Say Buddy Mcgirt, IMO he doesn't work on flaws like any other trainer. Murray gassed hard vs Sturm, and VS martienz he slowed down too, but worse, and his defense was still poor. Paulie was getting hit at will by Khan's jab, I didn't see any adjustment to it.


You are clearly intelligent and I agree with you on what some trainers are good at, but I don't purely agree that Roach doesn't make small adjustments in fighters.

I don't believe that I said that Roach doesn't make small adjustments. I did however say that the small adjustments that Roach makes do not usually play any significant role in the performance of his fighters.

Roach has had Pacquaiao use more head movement and better footwork. Has it served him well defensive wise?

The answer is yes and no.

It has against straight forward plodders who can only fight one way. Against talented, well rounded boxers like Marquez, Pacquiao is a sitting target who is easily frustrated by rudimentary lateral movement.

This reinforces the point about Roach being a master match maker. He knows just how limited his fighters are. And he uses that knowledge to orchestrate matches that serve to make is fighters seem more capable and dominant than they really are.

Its an intelligent way to ensure your fighter has a successful career, but its also deceitful and misleading. Khan's choice of Judah made him seem like a warrior, but Judah has been a questionable commodity ever since fighting Baldomir.

Manny Pacquiao is supposed to be a HOF and an ATG, but he's been fighting 5th ranked fighters coming off losses instead of 1st, 2nd or 3rd champions. That isn't ATG or HOF worthy, but that is the brilliance of match making and marketing.

Roach has used weight to give Manny the perception that he's this small, frail but feisty pug who is defying the odds. That was a lie when he told it as Pacquiao outweighed many of the guys he fought on fight night. Still, Roach gave his fighter the dazzle needed to create a buzz and intrigue. So much so, that Pacquiao was put on lists as #1 without ever having to defeat a top contender to be there.

So you see, those minor adjustments don't hold a candle to Roach's real contributions to his fighters. Have you listened to Roach in the corner? I mean his advice is practically useless if you listen to it. That's because Roach is not a technical kind of coach able to give adjustments on the fly.

As I said my good man, Roach is good at what he's good at. No need to make him seem as if he's skilled beyond what he's demonstrated.

Good discussion though. You certainly are are civil and articulate.

[Brother Jay]

I dislike Roach but he is one of the best in the business and a HOF trainer.

If you notice, most of the people calling him overrated are Floyd fans. If Roger was getting the accolades then you would have these same posters putting him up there with guys like Futch, Cus, etc.

IMO the top trainers in boxing right now are:

Freddy Roach, Nacho Beristein, ****m Richardson, Robert Garcia, Miguel Diaz, and Ronnie Shields.

I really don't think any are better than the others, but I put those guys in the elite class of trainers today.

LOL .. as always, you have nothing to offer. Rattling off a list of names that float your boat without any substance is just wasting space. Its your right to do it, and its my right to call it crap.

We all know that Roach is overrated and it has nothing to do with Floyd. That's just a veil you hide behind because you have little else to offer.

I've written the same about Emmanuel Steward and ****m Richardson right on this very forum and other forums.

Not everyone shows up here to worship fighters. And not every assertion has to do with an agenda.

That's just how you're accustomed to operating.

Instead of attacking other posters as a way of asserting your own opinions why not just let your statements stand on their own merits?

We all know why, peasant.

[LoadedWraps]

How come no one is praising the guy who was training Manny when he was getting put to sleep by bums?

[Khalid X]

LOL .. as always, you have nothing to offer. Rattling off a list of names that float your boat without any substance is just wasting space. Its your right to do it, and its my right to call it crap.

We all know that Roach is overrated and it has nothing to do with Floyd. That's just a veil you hide behind because you have little else to offer.

I've written the same about Emmanuel Steward and ****m Richardson right on this very forum and other forums.

Not everyone shows up here to worship fighters. And not every assertion has to do with an agenda.

That's just how you're accustomed to operating.

Instead of attacking other posters as a way of asserting your own opinions why not just let your statements stand on their own merits?

We all know why, peasant.

Dude you sound like a crack head outside a liquor store.

My post was simple and to the point.

[Brother Jay]

Dude you sound like a crack head outside a liquor store.

My post was simple and to the point.

You would know what a crackhead sounds like, now wouldn't you?

Your post was simple-minded and had no point other than for you to put on a skirt, grab some pom poms and cheer for who you believe is the best based on nothing but your own opinion, as usual.

[puga]

only hating on roach are the idiot donut powdered lippped crackhead brothers roger and floyd joy sr and thier followers...the rest are jealous coaches of freddies success....how do you downplay a 5 time trainer of the year..or is 4 time? ...ive lost count, lol

[CHOWWOKKA]

only hating on roach are the idiot donut powdered lippped crackhead brothers roger and floyd joy sr and thier followers...the rest are jealous coaches of freddies success....how do you downplay a 5 time trainer of the year..or is 4 time? ...ive lost count, lol

You can't count to 5?