People Need To Stop Saying That Freddie Roach Is A Great Trainer

[sunny31]

People are missing the point here. I'm not saying that he's a bad trainer and I give him credit for doing what he's doing in the physical condition that he's in, and i'm not saying that Kayode's loss was purely down to him either, I just don't think that he's a great trainer and a lot of people give him more credit than I believe he deserves. All of his fighters fight the same way, and have no defence.



I think that Roger Mayweather, Emanuel Steward, Naazim Richardson and Nacho Beristain are all great trainers who are better at what they do than Freddie Roach. That's not to say that Freddie is a bad trainer, but they are better than him. Nacho proved in the Marquez fight that he's much better.

I have already explained this on the first page. I suggest you read it again. I think that a lot of fighters look to train with him because of the planned and overrated success of Manny "I let other people make my decisions for me" Pacquiao who has become very popular by beating up a lot of ruined and handicapped opponents. And the fact that Manny has looked so good in these fights created the illussion that Freddie is this great trainer who has developed and transformed Manny into this unbeatable punching machine, until it was exposed as a complete and utter myth when he fought Marquez for the 3rd time and lost in the eyes on 90% of the boxing public. It proved that Freddie hasn't developed and improved Manny at all in the last few years and that his opposition was just complete trash. People looked at Manny's success and decided to train with Freddie because they thought they would have similar success, but for a lot of them it hasn't worked because they haven't had the luxary of fighting washed up and ruined opponents. The other reason why Freddie has had a lot of people training with him is because he's an attention whore who is always yapping on about anything and everything in a desperate attempt to become more popular which has made him a big name. When your the most well known trainer in the sport people are going to come to you regardless of whether you are a great trainer or not, and he is not. There are several better trainers out there who don't get half the attention and/or credit that he gets. It's very unfair.

Your post is so ****** I don't even know where to start. Full of biased, I thought this was a serious thread.

[M0NZ0N]

**NEWS FLASH** ... Lateef Kayode sucks.

Why the OP puts all the blame Roach is beyond me. You have to remember, despite how old and washed up Tarver is, Vegas still put Kayode as a 3.5/1 underdog. That's about the same odds as Bradley against Pacquiao. Roach's instructions to Kayode during the middle rounds was to keep circling and stay off the ropes. There was about a 4 to 5 round stretch where Tarver stunned Kayode in every one of those rounds. What would you have Kayode do? Mix it up? Tarver would have probably stopped him had Kayode stopped running. Roach knew his man banked a lot of early rounds, and his only chance at winning was to go the distance.

You also have to remember, before Roach, Pacquiao was known as a one-dimensional fighter. He was nothing more than a raw talent with a hell of a left hand. Look at his progression simply from watching all 3 Morales' fights. Who would you credit for that?

To say that Roach is a **** trainer is ridiculous and far from the truth.

[JAB5239]

Eddie Futch > Freddie Roach

Agreed, but that doesn't mean Roach isn't a great trainer himself. There are many little things the fans cant see the difference in but fighters do. That is why he is sought out.

[Uns]

People are missing the point here. I'm not saying that he's a bad trainer and I give him credit for doing what he's doing in the physical condition that he's in, and i'm not saying that Kayode's loss was purely down to him either, I just don't think that he's a great trainer and a lot of people give him more credit than I believe he deserves. All of his fighters fight the same way, and have no defence.



I think that Roger Mayweather, Emanuel Steward, Naazim Richardson and Nacho Beristain are all great trainers who are better at what they do than Freddie Roach. That's not to say that Freddie is a bad trainer, but they are better than him. Nacho proved in the Marquez fight that he's much better.



I have already explained this on the first page. I suggest you read it again. I think that a lot of fighters look to train with him because of the planned and overrated success of Manny "I let other people make my decisions for me" Pacquiao who has become very popular by beating up a lot of ruined and handicapped opponents. And the fact that Manny has looked so good in these fights created the illussion that Freddie is this great trainer who has developed and transformed Manny into this unbeatable punching machine, until it was exposed as a complete and utter myth when he fought Marquez for the 3rd time and lost in the eyes on 90% of the boxing public. It proved that Freddie hasn't developed and improved Manny at all in the last few years and that his opposition was just complete trash. People looked at Manny's success and decided to train with Freddie because they thought they would have similar success, but for a lot of them it hasn't worked because they haven't had the luxary of fighting washed up and ruined opponents. The other reason why Freddie has had a lot of people training with him is because he's an attention whore who is always yapping on about anything and everything in a desperate attempt to become more popular which has made him a big name. When your the most well known trainer in the sport people are going to come to you regardless of whether you are a great trainer or not, and he is not. There are several better trainers out there who don't get half the attention and/or credit that he gets. It's very unfair.

Roger Mayweather. Trains plenty of guys. Had some decent fighters in the past but has the best in the world. I have seen him give bad advice. Floyd trains himself now. If Roger was so good then floyd wouldn't be on the ropes at all vs cotto. Tbh I don't even remember who Roger trained that was world class other than floyd but I dot come from the Us to see. You tell me. Plus Senior trained Floyd his style which you can see from the amateurs.

Emmanuel steward. He has had some great fighters. Two of the best heavies in his era but if Wlad and Lewis were 6 foot 2 and 220 lbs his style would not work. He allowed Lewis to get fat and ktfo by Rahman and has done well with wlad who picks his opponents. Prince Nadeem, let Barrera beat him as well as Taylor getting owned by pavlik. Vera owned his Irish fighter too. Steward was unwilling to leave kronk gym for someone recently and their relationship split up.

Brother Nadeem? Please, he is great on rules and pre fight talks, but marg was tailor made for mosely, mosely kept saying Mexican style is for him. He then let mosely have a year lay off Berto or not and look at mosely now? For Hopkins pascal was perfect because he is a 4 rounder. Dawson showed Hopkins how to win rounds. I always said this, Hopkins does not deal with guys who have speed. Great? Hmmm, letting your man lose 12 rounders.

Nacho trains a few guys, jam does good vs PAC for sure but he targets PAC as a career. He has tune ups and has called PAC out all the time as he moves up... Quite a few names left him like r Marquez and arcs etc..

If roach is not great then neither are those above.

[Njord777]

Antonio Tarver didn't win the fight simply because he swept the later half of the rounds. You have to score all 12 rounds- I was- and Tarver arguably, and on my score card, lost almost all of the first 5.

From mid fight on, starting in the 6th, he wins most of the following rounds; but as I said in another post I think the 10th round was extremely close. I remember Shobox put up a stat that they both landed 21% and almost at the same number of connects.

That said, if you give Kayode the 10th- which I did- combined with his early work in the fight, it goes 6 rounds a piece.3


114-114 draw.

I bring this up because the context of the first post was Freddie Roach isn't a great trainer because his guy got schooled but, to be fair, I had to point out I feel his guy got a draw and, if there was a rematch, could get a 'W'.

Not arguing for or against Roach in any other way. Just wanted to point that out.

[Lord Supremium]

What champions does Roger Mayweather train besides Floyd?

[sunny31]

Roger Mayweather. Trains plenty of guys. Had some decent fighters in the past but has the best in the world. I have seen him give bad advice. Floyd trains himself now. If Roger was so good then floyd wouldn't be on the ropes at all vs cotto. Tbh I don't even remember who Roger trained that was world class other than floyd but I dot come from the Us to see. You tell me. Plus Senior trained Floyd his style which you can see from the amateurs.

Emmanuel steward. He has had some great fighters. Two of the best heavies in his era but if Wlad and Lewis were 6 foot 2 and 220 lbs his style would not work. He allowed Lewis to get fat and ktfo by Rahman and has done well with wlad who picks his opponents. Prince Nadeem, let Barrera beat him as well as Taylor getting owned by pavlik. Vera owned his Irish fighter too. Steward was unwilling to leave kronk gym for someone recently and their relationship split up.

Brother Nadeem? Please, he is great on rules and pre fight talks, but marg was tailor made for mosely, mosely kept saying Mexican style is for him. He then let mosely have a year lay off Berto or not and look at mosely now? For Hopkins pascal was perfect because he is a 4 rounder. Dawson showed
Hopkins how to win rounds. I always said this, Hopkins does not deal with guys who have speed. Great? Hmmm, letting your man lose 12 rounders.

Nacho trains a few guys, jam does good vs PAC for sure but he targets PAC as
a career. He has tune ups and has called PAC out all the time as he moves up... Quite a few names left him like r Marquez and arcs etc..

If roach is not great then neither are those above.

You made some good points that I was going to make about those trainers that in the end I just didn't think the TS was worth my time. You can discredit any trainer, I think that is the point you were making, because all those trainers are great, and good at what they do.

Nacho is again a trainer who can build a fighter from the ground up based on the Mexican style, and his special fighter obviously being Juan Manuel.

Manny Steward is a bit of a specialist like Roach, you can send him in and he can rebuild a fighter and make an impact. He has had a few great partnerships, but Hearns was probably his guy.

BUT...all of them have had plenty of failures.

[Uns]

People are missing the point here. I'm not saying that he's a bad trainer and I give him credit for doing what he's doing in the physical condition that he's in, and i'm not saying that Kayode's loss was purely down to him either, I just don't think that he's a great trainer and a lot of people give him more credit than I believe he deserves. All of his fighters fight the same way, and have no defence.



I think that Roger Mayweather, Emanuel Steward, Naazim Richardson and Nacho Beristain are all great trainers who are better at what they do than Freddie Roach. That's not to say that Freddie is a bad trainer, but they are better than him. Nacho proved in the Marquez fight that he's much better.



I have already explained this on the first page. I suggest you read it again. I think that a lot of fighters look to train with him because of the planned and overrated success of Manny "I let other people make my decisions for me" Pacquiao who has become very popular by beating up a lot of ruined and handicapped opponents. And the fact that Manny has looked so good in these fights created the illussion that Freddie is this great trainer who has developed and transformed Manny into this unbeatable punching machine, until it was exposed as a complete and utter myth when he fought Marquez for the 3rd time and lost in the eyes on 90% of the boxing public. It proved that Freddie hasn't developed and improved Manny at all in the last few years and that his opposition was just complete trash. People looked at Manny's success and decided to train with Freddie because they thought they would have similar success, but for a lot of them it hasn't worked because they haven't had the luxary of fighting washed up and ruined opponents. The other reason why Freddie has had a lot of people training with him is because he's an attention whore who is always yapping on about anything and everything in a desperate attempt to become more popular which has made him a big name. When your the most well known trainer in the sport people are going to come to you regardless of whether you are a great trainer or not, and he is not. There are several better trainers out there who don't get half the attention and/or credit that he gets. It's very unfair.

I think Naz basicall told Hopkins he won... thus he walked out.

People have gone to Steward and Nacho and left too btw.

Think Wlad and Lewis didn't get choices of opponents? Cotto left him too.

Nacho had Judah and Khan as people who wanted JMM. JMM went for Pac who he is good against, a war torn Katsidis who has no defense and JUan Diaz who paulie beat TWICE, TWICE. Fedhecko and ramos as tune ups.... lol. Look at JMM's resume, it's not that strong, but solid. Then he rematched Juan Diaz, a guy he KTFO?

[strykr619]

Hmmm the Boxing Writers Association doesn't think he is overrated (and I will take their opinion over ANYONE on the forums). Freddie Roach has won the trainer of the year award 5 times (2003,2006,2008,2009,2010).

Tapia,Toney,Pacquaio, Khan..... are among the champs he has trained.

[Uns]

You made some good points that I was going to make about those trainers that in the end I just didn't think the TS was worth my time. You can discredit any trainer, I think that is the point you were making, because all those trainers are great, and good at what they do.

Nacho is again a trainer who can build a fighter from the ground up based on the Mexican style, and his special fighter obviously being Juan Manuel.

Manny Steward is a bit of a specialist like Roach, you can send him in and he can rebuild a fighter and make an impact. He has had a few great partnerships, but Hearns was probably his guy.

BUT...all of them have had plenty of failures.

Yes this is my point, I do feel Freddie is overated, but to say he isn't great is wrong.

They all can turn a special fighter great, but it takes time and they can't turn all of them great because training camps clash, some are priority because they earn u more etc...

Also some fighters have flaws that you can't help. Linares has no chin and cuts very easily. Teach Linares defense maybe, but every fighter gets hit. But then Linares may lose simply because his speed, and workrate won him quite a few fights.

Everything leads to a pro and con.