So let's talk about Paul Williams and the Hall of Fame

[4Corners]

do you understand the meaning of a "non-participant?"

i'm just curious and not looking to dig at you. from your post it's pretty clear that you do not


there's a separate category for guys who dont box

most of them are writers, managers, promotors, etc.
guys who do their work with a fountain pen

stallone is in there because he's a writer. a screenwriter (writing for movies or filmed media.) he created rocky, who is one of the most galvanizing figures in all of american cinema

the first rocky moves is one of the greatest movies ever. not just about boxing. not just about sports. ever. it's a truly great film and story.

rocky is about as lovable a character as you'll ever see.


people who have never seen a boxing match or fistfight in their lives can identify with the character that stallone created.


he's not in there for being a fighter in movies
yikes
did you really think that's what they inducted him for?


"man, that rocky could really scrap. he's got wins over apollo creed, the russian, mr t, tommy gun morrison, and a draw with antonio "the line" tarver. more than 10 defenses of the legit championship. sure fire hall of famer."

In my opinion (and everyone has their own opinions of course), Rocky is one of the most overrated movies in the last 50 years, along side Titanic. I never liked Stallone, and the whole movie the only acting he had to do was "Hey yo Adrian". Just my opinion. Raging Bull is my favorite boxing movie, maybe because De Niro is my favorite actor of all-time.

[deanrw]

Williams isn't remotely close to a HOFer. He's just a champion of today, one of many. The very greatest of each era are HOFers, not every champion.

The legends of the game are the guys that become HOFers. Bopkins, Mayweather, Pac, Barrera, Morales, Marquez, etc etc.

I don't think that is correct. Many factors contribute to how a fighter will get into the HOF. Achievements is one of them of course. Over the years though it has been given to those who have had an impact on the sport, or in other words, helped carry it.

Gatti is an example of one who would not get in via achievements alone, but he was one of the select few who definitely contributed to the popularity of the sport for nearly a decade. He was an enigma, a blood n' guts type of guy who not only had a following, but he had a gigantic one who followed his every step. He left a legacy that people look back on and feel good about.

In this day and age, that is the most important thing the sport needs. He may not be a first ballad HOF'er, but he will eventually get in.

[PD21]

Ive seen lesser people get in. Joe Cortex for a start. Even Stallone and Barry Mguigan.

Paul Williams beat Sergio Martinez in his prime and winky Wright. Those two were arguably the best p4p fighters in the world. He also beat Margarito at a time when the best in the world wouldnt go near him for millions. It was probably a plaster wrapped Marg he beat too.

So yeah why not.

[Ring Leader]

Margarito beat Martinez when Martinez was 25. It doesnt get anymore prime than that. And Martinez fought the same way then as he does now except he was quicker back then. Margarito has what?? 7 Losses on his record or something like that. Martinez let Macklin stick around for 11 rounds, and let a alcoholic Pavlik, who was probably drunk the whole fight, win four straight rounds against him. Your weakining your case by bringing up Martinez. The same Martinez that blew him out in two rounds, then PWill gets his ass kicked by Lara who really lost to Molina. Its a done deal, get over it, PWill does not belong in the HOF, NOT EVEN CLOSE. In the words of Paul, "KNOW WHAT IM SAYING"

when Martinez was 25 was he in his physical prime or his boxing prime? Everybody with a half sense of logic knows Sergio was as green as a cucumber when he fought margarito. Should we give credit to Singsurat for beating Pac when he was 21? Is he top P4P right now too? Plus Williams beat Margarito's ass

[Brockton Lip]

Its very possible that Paul does make it into the IBHOF. Hes been a champion multiple times in multiple weights, has an exciting style, and avoids no one. He has a good resume of wins including a win over a now Middleweight, elite champion Sergio Martinez. Williams was also ducked or avoided by the best of this era. I believe he would have beaten both Mayweather and Pacquiao or at least would have given them all they could handle.

Also an interesting note, Williams is one of only a few fighters who has beaten everyone he has fought against.

[Roman Moreno]

when Martinez was 25 was he in his physical prime or his boxing prime? Everybody with a half sense of logic knows Sergio was as green as a cucumber when he fought margarito. Should we give credit to Singsurat for beating Pac when he was 21? Is he top P4P right now too? Plus Williams beat Margarito's ass

I agree that age doesn't mean prime for boxing. No doubt about that.

But, the whole Martinez wasn't prime excuse it kind of bothers me. Because, it's a way not to give Marg credit as if Marg at that time was a prime veteran. He wasn't, he was green as well. Was not just 3 years younger but only had 6 more pro fights at time as well than Martinez. And, Margarito like Martinez didn't have an amateur background(from what I know, maybe eaner can correct that) either. Margarito was green as well for that fight. And, Martinez didn't go on to lose for the next 9 years which many found was controversial and questionable against P-Will.

It's a poormens version of Hopkins-Roy. Where people talk is if Hopkins was green and Roy a finished product. No, both were green same thing with Margarito and Martinez.

[Xyei]

"man, that rocky could really scrap. he's got wins over apollo creed, the russian, mr t, tommy gun morrison, and a draw with antonio "the line" tarver. more than 10 defenses of the legit championship. sure fire hall of famer."

Post of the day right here!

[Roman Moreno]

Its very possible that Paul does make it into the IBHOF. Hes been a champion multiple times in multiple weights, has an exciting style, and avoids no one. He has a good resume of wins including a win over a now Middleweight, elite champion Sergio Martinez. Williams was also ducked or avoided by the best of this era. I believe he would have beaten both Mayweather and Pacquiao or at least would have given them all they could handle.

Also an interesting note, Williams is one of only a few fighters who has beaten everyone he has fought against.

He was only a champion at WW. He wasn't a champion of 154 or 160. Meh...I might give him 154 since Verno Phillips was wrongfully stripped IMO.

[Ring Leader]

I agree that age doesn't mean prime for boxing. No doubt about that.

But, the whole Martinez wasn't prime excuse it kind of bothers me. Because, it's a way not to give Marg credit as if Marg at that time was a prime veteran. He wasn't, he was green as well. Was not just 3 years younger but only had 6 more pro fights at time as well than Martinez. And, Margarito like Martinez didn't have an amateur background(from what I know, maybe eaner can correct that) either. Margarito was green as well for that fight. And, Martinez didn't go on to lose for the next 9 years which many found was controversial and questionable against P-Will.

It's a poormens version of Hopkins-Roy. Where people talk is if Hopkins was green and Roy a finished product. No, both were green same thing with Margarito and Martinez.

well ok. what did martinez accomplish before the margarito fight? the guy was green in terms of boxing. He was in his "physical prime" but that isnt as important as "boxing prime". c mon man he didnt start boxing until he was 20. Should Rodney Jones, Larry Dixon, Victor Lozoya be considered all time greats because he beat Margarito in his early years? Get real. Prime vs Prime Martinez > Margarito (Cheating Scumbag)

[Roman Moreno]

well ok. what did martinez accomplish before the margarito fight? the guy was green in terms of boxing. He was in his "physical prime" but that isnt as important as "boxing prime". c mon man he didnt start boxing until he was 20. Should Rodney Jones, Larry Dixon, Victor Lozoya be considered all time greats because he beat Margarito in his early years? Get real. Prime vs Prime Martinez > Margarito (Cheating Scumbag)

Not sure if you read my post.

I agree that Martinez wasn't prime in terms of boxing...Now we get that out of way.

But, neither was Margarito.

You said what did Martinez accomplish before Margarito. Nothing....Now I will ask what did Margarito accomplish before Martinez?

Again Margarito was not just 3 years younger. But, also only had 6 pro fights more. It's not like he had a Canelo, Chavez 35+ fights record while facing Martinez.

And, like Martinez, Margarito didn't have an amateur career or at the very least it was fairly none existent.

Again, I'm not saying Martinez wasn't prime. What I am saying is that neither was Margarito. Therefor that excuse doesn't fly for me personally.

Hence why I put the B-Hop-Roy fight as an example. People act as if Hopkins was green(which he was) and Roy a finished product(he wasn't) both fighters were green. The whole B-Hop was green was excuse doesn't fly for me personally.

And, like Hopkins, it took years for Martinez to lose again. And, like Hopkins the next loss was very questionable.

Not sure what you ranting about Dixon, Jones, and Victor being ATG's. It seemed like you didn't understand my point.

Prime for prime. Both fighters were in different weight-classes. 154 prime for prime, it would have been a very interesting fight. Martinez might do somethings that give Margarito trouble. But, Margarito had the intangibles, pressure, stamina, volume that would trouble Martinez as well. It would have been very interesting. Not sure who would have won at 154