Comments Thread For: Ellerbe: Mayweather Will Go Down as Greatest Ever

[RL_GMA]

In hindsight I don't think he will be. But regardless he'll be remembered as "one of" the greats, there's no denying that.

[Roy Jones Jnr]

In a day and age where Sports are dominated by stats, there's no doubt in my mind that when Floyd retires he will be remembered by this generation as the Greatest of All time, wether that's if he fights and beats Pacman/Sergio or doesn't fight them.

Now me personally, i already rank him on pure skill in the top 10,and if he beats pacman/sergio maybe even top 5.

However this generation will remember Floyd as the greatest of all time, that i have no doubt about. I dont agree with it but that's how i think it will be.

Stats are the be all and end all in sports nowadays, and i absolutely disagree with that but they are, and Floyd dominates the stats tables.

[The Big Dunn]

I'm holding Floyd to the standard of what the best fighters of all time did, because that's the conversation we are having. There's a reason so many people, myself included, feel there is no possible way a modern fighter can even approach the fighters considered in the top 10 all time, let alone the greatest. The evolution of the sport does not allow it, they don't fight as much and they don't fight nearly as much top competition.

I give credit to Leonard for beating Duran, because Duran is an ATG that had beat the crap out of Leonard already. Hagler waited because Leonard retired with a detached retina that might have been career ending. And Leonard gets killed for those fights, all the time, even though he actually fought them, and as much as I disagree with the Hagler fight he holds victories over them.

Let's consider Floyd in the conversation for greatest fighter ever, without holding him to the standard those men are held at, because that's being unfair. Do you all realize how ridiculous that sounds?

What you did in the last paragraph was straight up bull****! I alreaady stated floyd can't be the best ever so You know thats not my point.

Criticize and praise fighters equally that my point. If you give Leonard props for beating duran, as you should, make sure to factor in that the primary reasons for the fight were size and to delay the Hearns fight. Why? Becasue thats what you say about floyd- "well he fought Cotto but he waited 4 years and did so only to duck manny."

I do understand and respect it your point about modern fighters but I disagree to a ceratin extent. Ali and SRR just can't get spots 1 and 2 and never be removed. Its not fair to penalize current fighters for changes and evolution in the sport that are out of their control.

[bojangles1987]

What you did in the last paragraph was straight up bull****! I alreaady stated floyd can't be the best ever so You know thats not my point.

Criticize and praise fighters equally that my point. If you give Leonard props for beating duran, as you should, make sure to factor in that the primary reasons for the fight were size and to delay the Hearns fight. Why? Becasue thats what you say about floyd- "well he fought Cotto but he waited 4 years and did so only to duck manny."

I do understand and respect it your point about modern fighters but I disagree to a ceratin extent. Ali and SRR just can't get spots 1 and 2 and never be removed. Its not fair to penalize current fighters for changes and evolution in the sport that are out of their control.

Ali isn't in either of the top 2 spots on most people's lists. Which really tells you something about the history of the sport and how deep the resumes of those that are at the top really are.

It's not out of modern fighters' control what has happened to the sport. They could take tough fights throughout their career, fight the best in every division and prove they deserve to be in that conversation, but guess what? None of them do. That's why Sugar Ray Robinson and Harry Greb and Willie Pep and Henry Armstrong are at the top, is because they did just that, really because that was just the way the sport happened. Did they fight everyone? No, but they fought so many good and great fighters that no one can compare.

Just look at Roy Jones Jr., who did everything Floyd has and some, was every bit as dominant, has two ATGs on his resume, and H2H is even more of a force than Floyd. When the question came up after the Ruiz fight whether Roy deserved to be in the conversation for best fighter ever, he couldn't even touch it because as great as he was his resume just can't stack up. Modern fighters aren't penalized, they just can't compare and it's just as unfair to older fighters to hold modern fighters to a lesser standard, because modern fighters can get away with fighting the best less consistently.

I hold everyone to that same standard. Why can't people(not you, everyone) understand that beating Pac and Martinez could get Floyd to the top 30 or so all time maybe, and that is a tremendous accomplishment? In the vast, more than a century long history of this sport, Floyd is already probably one of the best 40-45 best fighters ever, and could hit the top 30. That's fantastic, that is not an insult it's a great honor.

[bojangles1987]

What you did in the last paragraph was straight up bull****! I alreaady stated floyd can't be the best ever so You know thats not my point.

Criticize and praise fighters equally that my point. If you give Leonard props for beating duran, as you should, make sure to factor in that the primary reasons for the fight were size and to delay the Hearns fight. Why? Becasue thats what you say about floyd- "well he fought Cotto but he waited 4 years and did so only to duck manny."

I do understand and respect it your point about modern fighters but I disagree to a ceratin extent. Ali and SRR just can't get spots 1 and 2 and never be removed. Its not fair to penalize current fighters for changes and evolution in the sport that are out of their control.

Please stop comparing Cotto to Duran. Leonard deciding to fight Duran, a monster and one of the greatest lightweights of all time, doesn't compare to Floyd fighting Cotto now. Stop using that comparison.

[The Big Dunn]

Ali isn't in either of the top 2 spots on most people's lists. Which really tells you something about the history of the sport and how deep the resumes of those that are at the top really are.

It's not out of modern fighters' control what has happened to the sport. They could take tough fights throughout their career, fight the best in every division and prove they deserve to be in that conversation, but guess what? None of them do. That's why Sugar Ray Robinson and Harry Greb and Willie Pep and Henry Armstrong are at the top, is because they did just that, really because that was just the way the sport happened. Did they fight everyone? No, but they fought so many good and great fighters that no one can compare.

Just look at Roy Jones Jr., who did everything Floyd has and some, was every bit as dominant, has two ATGs on his resume, and H2H is even more of a force than Floyd. When the question came up after the Ruiz fight whether Roy deserved to be in the conversation for best fighter ever, he couldn't even touch it because as great as he was his resume just can't stack up. Modern fighters aren't penalized, they just can't compare and it's just as unfair to older fighters to hold modern fighters to a lesser standard, because modern fighters can get away with fighting the best less consistently.

I hold everyone to that same standard. Why can't people(not you, everyone) understand that beating Pac and Martinez could get Floyd to the top 30 or so all time maybe, and that is a tremendous accomplishment? In the vast, more than a century long history of this sport, Floyd is already probably one of the best 40-45 best fighters ever, and could hit the top 30. That's fantastic, that is not an insult it's a great honor.

But again, its not just about the praise and credit. Its about the criticism. I want to see equal criticism for the same actions. Thats why I brought up SRL.

The nature of the sport has shifted significantly in that back in the day, SRR and Armstrong fought more and fought better guys because they couldn't get paid otherwise. SO I get that and they deserve respect for it.

Lets tweak it. Lets say floyd beats cotto, manny (150), sergio (154), and ward (160). WOuld that allow you to consider him for your top ATG list?

[The Big Dunn]

Please stop comparing Cotto to Duran. Leonard deciding to fight Duran, a monster and one of the greatest lightweights of all time, doesn't compare to Floyd fighting Cotto now. Stop using that comparison.

Not as fighters dude, the context of why the fights occured. SRL fought Duran not for legacy or competition. Cmon man you gotta stop pretending you don't understand.

[bojangles1987]

But again, its not just about the praise and credit. Its about the criticism. I want to see equal criticism for the same actions. Thats why I brought up SRL.

The nature of the sport has shifted significantly in that back in the day, SRR and Armstrong fought more and fought better guys because they couldn't get paid otherwise. SO I get that and they deserve respect for it.

Lets tweak it. Lets say floyd beats cotto, manny (150), sergio (154), and ward (160). WOuld that allow you to consider him for your top ATG list?

He's already an ATG. He just doesn't deserve to be considered in the conversation for greatest ever. Which is what the thread is about. Sugar Ray Leonard gets criticized all the time, for Duran, for Hagler, for the Hearns rematch, etc. I would know, I do a lot of that criticizing.

It's ridiculous to say Floyd should be in the conversation for greatest fighter ever. It's an insult to all the fighters ahead of him, who earned their spots. I don't care if they had to to get paid, they did it and Floyd(along with everyone else in the past twenty years) have not.

[bojangles1987]

Not as fighters dude, the context of why the fights occured. SRL fought Duran not for legacy or competition. Cmon man you gotta stop pretending you don't understand.

The context doesn't matter. Leonard fought an ATG near his prime. Mayweather is fighting a good fighter definitely past his prime. The context matters little, the quality of opponent can't be compared. Not fighting one ATG because you are fighting another ATG isn't worth as much criticism as fighting a decent past prime fighter instead of an ATG.

[The Big Dunn]

He's already an ATG. He just doesn't deserve to be considered in the conversation for greatest ever. Which is what the thread is about. Sugar Ray Leonard gets criticized all the time, for Duran, for Hagler, for the Hearns rematch, etc. I would know, I do a lot of that criticizing.

It's ridiculous to say Floyd should be in the conversation for greatest fighter ever. It's an insult to all the fighters ahead of him, who earned their spots. I don't care if they had to to get paid, they did it and Floyd(along with everyone else in the past twenty years) have not.

I certainly agree that he isn't in the discussion as greatest ever. But I also agree with the poster champ that whenever the discussion involves floyd the standard changes.