Donaire peers......

[HeroBando]

Those in the bold was terrible, they weren't fine. Yuri Foreman hasn't lost and it was after Cotto was coming from a dominating lost. So that one is different the other ones were not fine pretty bad. Same with WV2 so we agree on that.

And, first the first paragraph maybe, maybe not...You don't know what kind of ref and shenanigans would happen in Germany. I saw Robin Reid get a warning for punching Sven Ottke in the face. Think about that for a second.

And, your post doesn't take away the fact that when is more importantly than who. Sydorenko didn't matter when Donaire beat him. He mattered when he fought Moreno...Darchinyan mattered when he fought Donaire he didn't really matter when he fought Moreno. Maybe he mattered more than Sydorenko did since he beat Perez. But, the point is the when is more important than who. There is no point in Darchinyan career that he could **** with Moreno. But, I can't give Anselmo credit for something he didn't do. You can't give Donaire credit for something he didn't do. Fighting fighters when they're irrelevant is not the same when fighting fighters who are relevant.

Right, I really meant to say WV2 was more legit than those, including Foreman. Noone outside the top 5 at 122 is a sure bet against him
(esp since it'd be in PR). IMO the guy has talent, and this win will look better in retrospect. Better than Darren Barker, for sure.

I'm not saying Sid was a force when Donaire fought him, but he had never been shown up like Vic had repeatedly, and Donaire treated him like a stepchild. That's a good win on any bantam's record (sure better than Cermeno x2), but not even worthy of mention with Donaire.

[Roman Moreno]

Right, I really meant to say WV2 was more legit than those, including Foreman. Noone outside the top 5 at 122 is a sure bet against him
(esp since it'd be in PR). IMO the guy has talent, and this win will look better in retrospect. Better than Darren Barker, for sure.

I'm not saying Sid was a force when Donaire fought him, but he had never been shown up like Vic had repeatedly, and Donaire treated him like a stepchild. That's a good win on any bantam's record (sure better than Cermeno x2), but not even worthy of mention with Donaire.

No man, WV2 is not better than Foreman. No, just no.

Better than Darren Barker sure, better than Macklin no.

What's your definition of 'Shown up'? Because, Sydorenko was shown up in his home country twice against Moreno and once against Agbeko. So he was shown up like Vic has REPEATEDLY. Like I said, the Darchinyan win for Moreno might be better than the Sydorenko win for Donaire. Because Vic was coming off a win over Perez and close competitive fight with Mares. While Sydorenko hadn't done **** at 118 since Moreno and went to fight at 115.

The Cermeño that Moreno fought is better than the Sydorenko than Donaire fought.

Again, you're focusing too much on the name, the WHO. but, more importantly than WHO is when.

If Donaire would have fought WV2 before WV2 lost to a shot smaller fight it would have mattered. Fighting WV2 after he lost to shot small fighter it just doesn't matter. Fighting Sydorenko when he did doesn't matter. More importantly than who is when. It's like if Moreno fights Montiel next. It just doesn't matter anymore. It mattered when Donaire fought Montiel.

Don't focus on the who, focus on the when. Because, that's the importance.

[HeroBando]

Top 10 by default. At least Rico Ramos had KO'd Shimoda to win his title, better than anything WV2 has done. WV2's only step up he got TKO'd by Arce. How the hell was that a good fight for Donaire??? Why do people talk about WV2 as if he's a Top 122 lb fighter or some s**t???

And at least Yuri Foreman had beaten Santos to win his title, and it was when Cotto was bouncing back after Pac to try and win a title at 154. That was fine. WV2 was not fine by any means for Donaire.

Right, 122 is/was not packed with names. WV2 wouldn't be top 10 at 126, but is at 122. How good of a win was Shimoda? The champ he beat was on his first defense, and then Shimoda promptly turned over the belt. I'm not even sure WV was favored against Sonsona, and the hungarian dude was supposed to be tough for him.

More to the point, after a demoralizing loss the guy turns around and takes a fight he's sure to lose, probably via a nasty, embarassing KO. He goes on to outperform expectations. The guy is a fighter, and a pretty talented one, with his lack of experience. If Ramos was skittish against Shimoda, how do you think he does against WV?

[$coinblatt$]

Top 10 by default. At least Rico Ramos had KO'd Shimoda to win his title, better than anything WV2 has done. WV2's only step up he got TKO'd by Arce. How the hell was that a good fight for Donaire??? Why do people talk about WV2 as if he's a Top 122 lb fighter or some s**t???

And at least Yuri Foreman had beaten Santos to win his title, and it was when Cotto was bouncing back after Pac to try and win a title at 154. That was fine. WV2 was not fine by any means for Donaire.

this is exactly what I was going to post, I see this being mentioned alot with how the division is getting "stacked". WV2 is nowhere on the top of the division, he was the weakest title holder in the division when Arce beat him.

[4Corners]

Right, 122 is/was not packed with names. WV2 wouldn't be top 10 at 126, but is at 122. How good of a win was Shimoda? The champ he beat was on his first defense, and then Shimoda promptly turned over the belt. I'm not even sure WV was favored against Sonsona, and the hungarian dude was supposed to be tough for him.

More to the point, after a demoralizing loss the guy turns around and takes a fight he's sure to lose, probably via a nasty, embarassing KO. He goes on to outperform expectations. The guy is a fighter, and a pretty talented one, with his lack of experience. If Ramos was skittish against Shimoda, how do you think he does against WV?

Wilfredo Vazquez Jr isn't a sure thing to beat Shimoda or Ramos. Now maybe he'd ebat Rico Ramos H2H, but that doesn't change the fact that Rico Ramos was more proven at 122 than WV2 was, flat out. And Shimoda is pretty good, he was beating Ramos as handily as Rigo was until he got knocked the f**k out. I wouldn't mind seeing Shimoda-Vazquez, I'd bet on Shimoda to win that fight. WV2 sucks, he's never sniffing a title again, unless he gets some cheap vacant title win. And at the same time, I doubt Rico Ramos sniffs a world title again, but he was still more proven by beating Shimoda. Shimoda, aside from obviosuly getting KO'd, has the skill set and looks good enough to win a title again someday.

Cotto-Foreman was a legit fight for a title. Foreman had at least beaten Santos at 154 to win his title, earned his spot in the Top 10 at 154 with that win. And Cotto was rebounding to win a title in a new weight class.

Donaire-WV2 was bulls**t to the fullest. wv2 had never beaten anyone good and got TKO'd by Arce in his only step up, and that s**t was for a vacant title???

[HeroBando]

Wilfredo Vazquez Jr isn't a sure thing to beat Shimoda or Ramos. Now maybe he'd ebat Rico Ramos H2H, but that doesn't change the fact that Rico Ramos was more proven at 122 than WV2 was, flat out. And Shimoda is pretty good, he was beating Ramos as handily as Rigo was until he got knocked the f**k out. I wouldn't mind seeing Shimoda-Vazquez, I'd bet on Shimoda to win that fight. WV2 sucks, he's never sniffing a title again, unless he gets some cheap vacant title win. And at the same time, I doubt Rico Ramos sniffs a world title again, but he was still more proven by beating Shimoda. Shimoda, aside from obviosuly getting KO'd, has the skill set and looks good enough to win a title again someday.

Cotto-Foreman was a legit fight for a title. Foreman had at least beaten Santos at 154 to win his title, earned his spot in the Top 10 at 154 with that win. And Cotto was rebounding to win a title in a new weight class.

Donaire-WV2 was bulls**t to the fullest. wv2 had never beaten anyone good and got TKO'd by Arce in his only step up, and that s**t was for a vacant title???

Santos was a non factor at the time, until taking advantage of a vulnerable titlist in an upset. He was in pathetic shape against Foreman, looked much more shot than Arce recently, you just had to watch the fight. He promptly retired afterwards. And as shot as Arce might be, he's levels above Wolak.

Shimoda beating on Ramos doesn't mean he's very good, perhaps it says something about Ramos. It was one of the worst title winning efforts you can think of, and a precursor to his sorry display with Rigo. If Shimoda ever fights WV2, he doesn't last 12 rounds, we can make a bet. I'd also bet WV goes on to have a better career than both of these guys, by far.

[4Corners]

Santos was a non factor at the time, until taking advantage of a vulnerable titlist in an upset. He was in pathetic shape against Foreman, looked much more shot than Arce recently, you just had to watch the fight. He promptly retired afterwards. And as shot as Arce might be, he's levels above Wolak.

Shimoda beating on Ramos doesn't mean he's very good, perhaps it says something about Ramos. It was one of the worst title winning efforts you can think of, and a precursor to his sorry display with Rigo. If Shimoda ever fights WV2, he doesn't last 12 rounds, we can make a bet. I'd also bet WV goes on to have a better career than both of these guys, by far.

Foreman still won a title there over someone and hadn't lost, and Cotto was coming off a beatdown entering a new weight class. Donaire was riding high off beating Montiel and Top 10 P4P, and already took a soft touch with Narvaez for christ sake. I understnad maybe having a soft tough after winning a big fight, like how Floyd did N'dou/Sosa after the Castillo fights. But it sounds like Donaire is about to have his 3rd soft tough in a row, and could leave 122 without fighting Rigo, Nishioka, Mares, Moreno, etc.

We'll see. Wilfredo Vazquez Jr, the only time he's fight legit fights, was TKO'd and should have lost a wide UD to Donaire. Shimoda isn't that bad, really. He just got caught by Ramos, oh well. He'll bounce back and he's still ranked inside the Top 10 at 122, so he can get legit fights possibly.

If they ever fight, I'll put a bet on Shimoda to beat him. You'll have to hit me up if that ever happens, I doubt it will though.

[HeroBando]

Foreman still won a title there over someone and hadn't lost, and Cotto was coming off a beatdown entering a new weight class. Donaire was riding high off beating Montiel and Top 10 P4P, and already took a soft touch with Narvaez for christ sake. I understnad maybe having a soft tough after winning a big fight, like how Floyd did N'dou/Sosa after the Castillo fights. But it sounds like Donaire is about to have his 3rd soft tough in a row, and could leave 122 without fighting Rigo, Nishioka, Mares, Moreno, etc.

We'll see. Wilfredo Vazquez Jr, the only time he's fight legit fights, was TKO'd and should have lost a wide UD to Donaire. Shimoda isn't that bad, really. He just got caught by Ramos, oh well. He'll bounce back and he's still ranked inside the Top 10 at 122, so he can get legit fights possibly.

If they ever fight, I'll put a bet on Shimoda to beat him. You'll have to hit me up if that ever happens, I doubt it will though.

Cool, we'll make a bet if this happens. I'm not that much of a fan of WV2 (or even of Donaire, if you can believe that), but I've seen him 4-5 times, and other than the Arce fight, he always overperformed. Including the Donaire fight, which could have been career ending. I also found it refreshing that a marketable guy with zero amateur fights was taking somewhat risky fights so early in his career, a total opposite of Canelo/Chavez/most others in his position. And even against Arce he didn't disgrace himself, unlike Reluctant Rico.

[M0NZ0N]

I think Mares takes Donaire right now.

[.:: JSFD26 ::.]

U don't think WV2 can beat Kennedy, Morel, De La Mora, or Rojas??? I do......

To tell you the truth, the Morel from last night even if he got dominated, I think could beat WV2 or give him some good problems at the very least. But WV2 should beat the rest of the guys you listed tho.

Also, no disrespect but it's sad that you're trying to compare Donaire, a suppose top P4P fighter, to a guy with 9 bouts under his belt. It goes to show how sad Donaire and his competition have been. Like 4Corners said, idk why people give Donaire a pass and buy on the hype. I've been saying this for a while and you can call me crazy but there's a reason why Donaire hasn't stepped his competition up and I truly believe its cause at these higher weight classes he will get exposed. I mean, WV2 is the biggest guy he's faced and he said it on the post fight interview, bigger guys are a different story.