Who will leave boxing with the best legacy out of Toney, Jones and Hopkins?

[Super_Lightweight]

hmm

That doesn't make them any better than Roy, just different. I didn't see Ray Leonard lookin to "savvy" against Terry Norris.

Roy fought too long, and it should be acknowledged; not used to discredit him. He still did what he did. You're not better just cuz you last longer. By that logic, Emmitt Smith is better than Barry Sanders, and I know you don't agree with that my motor city friend.

[BLOODSHED]

Co-sign to every word here. Well said...

You must be stone drunk if you think the Hopkins that fought Jones in 93 was ANYWHERE near his best. Hopkins best years were from 97-03, nearly 4 years after he faced Jones. There's really nothing else to say about that.

[BLOODSHED]

That was Roy's downfall in my opinion. Karma to you.

Another thing I give those guys points for is lasting late into their careers. Both men are successful because of their talent, toughness and ring smarts. They are both very technically sound and know the ins and outs of the game like the backs of their hands.

Roy never adapted once his reflexes went away. Almost EVERY great champion was able to fall back on their wits and toughness once their skills diminished in order to win. Just look at Ali, Foreman, Hagler, Robinson, Leonard, Duran, etc...all of them fell back on technique/smarts/toughness. A glaring example of Roy not being able to adapt to this is with Glen Johnson. You think Toney would have let Johnson rush his ass like that without taxing him and making him pay? Hell no...

[The Fix]

Jones faced Hopkins who was not in his prime regardless of what you or slw say, toney who was weight drained and apathetic, and mccallum who was at the very end of a great career. Now I know that those wins are wins and excuses are like *******s, but I don't think any of those wins were TOO spectacular. Just like Hopkins best wins were little guys and above average fighters. Nothing too spectacular.

I don't understand why people always place so much emphasis on moving up in weight. It's cool when fighters do it sure but I feel that a greater accomplishment is cleaning out your division (which Hopkins dominantly did). He holds an incredible record that no middleweight is going to come near for a long time...and if it wasn't for an incompetent judge he still would have held onto his titles.

You know what's the craziest thing about Nard? HE'S 40 ****ING YEARS OLD and still fights these young guys and whoops on them. He's a freak of nature and he's a throwback.

head over to the hip hop forum and tell me what you thought of that murs album.....

[The Fix]

Another thing I give those guys points for is lasting late into their careers. Both men are successful because of their talent, toughness and ring smarts. They are both very technically sound and know the ins and outs of the game like the backs of their hands.

Roy never adapted once his reflexes went away. Almost EVERY great champion was able to fall back on their wits and toughness once their skills diminished in order to win. Just look at Ali, Foreman, Hagler, Robinson, Leonard, Duran, etc...all of them fell back on technique/smarts/toughness. A glaring example of Roy not being able to adapt to this is with Glen Johnson. You think Toney would have let Johnson rush his ass like that without taxing him and making him pay? Hell no...

he let roy do it to him for 12 rounds, that was a severley one sided fight. well you say that toney was out of shape or what not, take a look at roy in that fight(the johnson fight) and tell me he was anywhere near peak conditioning.

[oldgringo]

Great fighters don't usually lose to green fighters like Jermain Taylor. Roy got KO'd by a punch that would have stopped a moose, and that was after coming down from heavyweight, which everyone (who's not a hater) knows ****ed Roy up physically. *Weak reply...Hopkins deserved the draw and he was jobbed because of an incompetent ref...sorry but Taylor will be 10x the fighter that Tarver is when his career is over. Also, you didn't see Taylor knockin Hopkins head off with 1 punch did you? Toney would have eaten that left hook that Tarver hit Jones with for breakfast (maybe literally)*



Roy was undefeated all the way until 2004, for 15 years. Hops was undefeated for a decade. Roy's streak was longer, regardless of how long Hops stayed in one weight class. Duran was better p4p than Tito or DLH were ever gonna be. Hopkins beat Tito and DLH, and that is good, but those small guys don't trump Roy.
*I wasn't talking about how long the guys were undefeated, Hopkins has the record for title defenses, Roy doesn't end of story.*


You can't rank Hops ahead of Roy based on "potential". The bolded is also key. And all we know about Taylor right now is that he barely beat a 40 yr old dinosaur.
*Calling Hopkins a 40 year old dinosaur is showing pretty much 0 respect for the fighter that he is. Everyone knows that he's the most dangerous 40 year old dinosaur ever and would have beaten anybody else in the middleweight division on that night. I'm not ranking Hops above Roy on potential, I'm rating him based on his records and success late into his career. Hopkins is a top 5 middleweight all-time...Roy is a top 5 nothing all-time*


LOL...sorry for callin you drunk, man. I disagree but I shoulda acted like an adult. My bad. But yeah, like I said, it doesn't matter, Hops woulda had to fight Roy the same way he did in 93 to beat him in 2002, and that's maul, and it didn't work. And he was near his best, just not there yet. He just didn't have the Tito's and DLH's in front of him to expose yet. All the guys Hops beat from 98-04 he woulda beat in 93. *Again...Hops was nowhere near the fighter in 93 that he was in 97-03. You really think a 2001 Hopkins would have been knocked down twice by Segundo Mercado? Thats the ballgame...*

Toney has fought jack **** at heavyweight. NC vs overweight Ruiz, stoppage of an old dinosaur, and wins vs two guys that were never anything at heavyweight. It's not nitpicking when you test positive for steroids and on the record it says no contest. I'll believe Toney can beat a fully motivated and angry Brew when I see it (not the frienly powder puff Brew who goes light on his friends). Byrd he can beat cuz Byrd has looked like **** lately and the same goes for Rahman. *That's the nitpicking I was looking for. Realists know that Toney won because at the end of the fight the announcer said "AND NEW HW CHAMPION OF THE WORLD JAMES TONEY". He beat Ruiz but yes its a NC in the old record book. Disregard it if you'd like but it's not like that hurts Toneys stock at all hombre. Toneys best wins are better than Roys and he could unify simple and plain*

.............

[oldgringo]

That doesn't make them any better than Roy, just different. I didn't see Ray Leonard lookin to "savvy" against Terry Norris.

Roy fought too long, and it should be acknowledged; not used to discredit him. He still did what he did. You're not better just cuz you last longer. By that logic, Emmitt Smith is better than Barry Sanders, and I know you don't agree with that my motor city friend.

Bad analogy...Sanders didn't retire because he "wasn't lasting"...he quit because he wanted to. Theres a difference between your body and mind holding up and just quitting because you don't enjoy the sport anymore.

Specifically, I was talking about how Ray Leonard bested Marvin Hagler when he was well past his best weight and fighting shape.

[Super_Lightweight]

hmm

There's no nitpicking. It's NC. That's Toney's fault, period.

Additonally, Hops was not hit with the punch Roy got hit with, and Taylor could NOT deliver such a punch. Also, Hops was not jobbed. Now I know you're crazy. Don't bull**** me. Most fans thought Taylor won, and rightfully so. Maybe you should look at the early round that shoulda NEVER been scored for Hops instead of whining about the last round.

Hops has a record of title defenses, so what? It's a number, dude, It doesn't trump anything Roy did, period. Roy was champ at 175 for some 7-8 years, and? The only thing that matters is names and Roy has the better ones on his resume.

Hops is the most dangerous 40 yr old, but he is still old and he proved it by losing to a guy he woulda KO'd 3 years ago.

Again, the only way Hops would ever beat Roy is by mauling him, and Hops was as good a MAULER in 93 as he ever was, The problem was the man he was mauling: Roy Jones. Roy would always beat Hops, and he DID beat Hops. Hops improved boxing skills don't mean much to Roy. I guess you're gonna tell me he would outbox Roy in 2001? Right...

Anyway, that's all I have to say on the issue. I can tell you love those hardcore street guys like Toney and Hops and will never get over that to give a country bumpkin like Roy props, but whatever, Peace.

Specifically, I was talking about how Ray Leonard bested Marvin Hagler when he was well past his best weight and fighting shape.

A highly disupted win versus a past-his-prime Hagler, in Hagler's last fight. And, Thurman Thomas lasted longer than Barry, does that make him better?

Anyway, that's all I have to say on the issue. I can tell you love those hardcore street guys like Toney and Hops and will never get over that to give a country bumpkin like Roy props, but whatever, Peace.

[oldgringo]

he let roy do it to him for 12 rounds, that was a severley one sided fight. well you say that toney was out of shape or what not, take a look at roy in that fight(the johnson fight) and tell me he was anywhere near peak conditioning.

Fix, he didn't let Roy bum rush him and beat on him until he got knocked the **** out. Toney just couldn't reach Roy because of Roy's reflexes and fighting style.

Yes Roy was in good shape for that fight. He was still young and was nice-n-ripped in the fight.

Your comparison would be valid had Roy knocked Toney unconscious for 2 minutes, but that didn't happen to Toney it happened to Roy...TWICE!

[BLOODSHED]

That was a result of Roy's age and lessening reflexes more than anything.

Your comparison would be valid had Roy knocked Toney unconscious for 2 minutes, but that didn't happen to Toney it happened to Roy...TWICE!