Why are people not pushing Manny/Martinez?

[Bushbaby]

Bushbaby, how is Pac cherrypicking a lightweight in Marquez when he is also a lightweight and they have had two close fights before? Marquez outweighed him in the ring but somehow Pac is the Bully. Because the judges did not agree with you does not make them blind. You are bias and they are neutral. Like INDOSMOKE said how does Pac win every round against Mosley and somehow he struggled? Again you say Pac thinks he will lose to Cotto at 154 since he turned that fight down. Newsflash, just because a fighter turns down a fight it does not mean he thinks he will lose that fight. By your logic Floyd thought he would have lost to Winky Wright, Margarito, and the rematch with De La Hoya since he turned down all of those fights. Floyd obviously thought he would lose to Pac since he turned down Pac's offer of a 50 50 split of the purse if we go by your logic.

No actually it is a fact Pacman is a welterweight & has been for years, while Marquez only ever had 1 fight at welterweight in which he was thrown a shutout.

Mosley was there to be stopped. If Pacman knew how to cut off the ring, that fight would have ended by ko. He cannot cut off the ring.

News flash Pacman chose Cotto, then Cotto took the better offer from Floyd. Pacman didn't turn Cotto down, he wanted to fight him at the highest of 148 fact.

I suggest you go check up on some things. By my logic Floyd this or that. I'm no Floyd fan buddy. But yes Floyd would have lost to Winky, was shook off Margarito & for obvious reasons didn't want Oscar.

But like I said Pacman chose Cotto in 2012 but no higher than 148. If Pacman thought he could beat Cotto at any weight (like you do), he would have compromised more than 1 lb.

[SWEETSCIENCE100]

Pac will never fight a career killer like Martinez or Mayweather. He only take easy fights. He wont even fight Ortiz or Berto,No way no how!

[Brother Jay]

Action speak louder than words. It's obvious Pacman will never fight Cotto where he doesn't have a weight advantage. That's obvious by now to those that care to keep it real.

Why limit it to just Cotto?

Pacquiao targeted each and every WW and jrMW he's faced only AFTER they had the biggest loss of their career.

There were catchweights and fight night rehydration clauses involved.

Let's not kid ourselves.

Pacquiao's resume above 135 is INCREDIBLY WEAK. Yet some are desperate enough to suggest that Manny's endeavors above 140 are ATG or even HOF worthy.

Utter nonsense.

The possibility of Pacquiao fighting Martinez is so slim that you could pick corn out of your teeth with it.

Not because it isn't a fight that couldn't be made. Its simply because Pacquiao doesn't take fights where the deck isn't stacked in his favor BEFORE the fight ever happens. Even now Manny is making Bradley come up to 147.

The real question that should be asked is "Why do the fans support Pacquiao fights where weight is usually the determining factor".

I don't blame Pacquiao for doing what he does. Why not? If the boxing writers abide by this shit, and his fanbase is ****** and desperate enough to support it, then why not?

Manny Pacquiao has the adoration of several million peasants, and writer accolades that make him almost seem legitimate, and a promoter who will spin every move he makes for Manny to make him seem honorable.

Manny Pacquiao SHOULD be doing what he has been doing. He should be using catchweights, seeking vacant titles and using rehydration clauses. He should absolutely not risk fighting reigning champions .. because no one will complain when he targets losers.

Its only intelligent to work smarter and not harder if your fanbase is willing to give you equal credit for lesser feats.

In that regard, Martinez is absolutely out of the question. Why should Manny Pacquiao take a chance against a bigger fighter when he could fight smaller men for the same credit?

Bob Arum and Manny Pacquiao are pimps. They are pimping out their own fanbase and loving every minute of it. They are getting rich without taking any big risks. They have their fanbase arguing Manny's greatness for them, because they know of they ever started the conversation themselves they would open the floodgates for scrutiny. So better to seem humble and soft spoken.

Martinez represents what nearly EVERY winning WW represented years ago:

A unnecessary risk that could end it all. Why take risks like that when Manny could sit back, wait for WWs to fight each other and then chose the LOSER at a catchweight? Arum would hype the fight up as if it were David vs Goliath anyway, so its no skin off Manny's back.

What's so sad though is that fighting Miguel Cotto at a comfortable weight while he is still winning was OUT OF THE QUESTION for Team Pacquiao. Its clear that he's not interested in ANY perceived risk after the JMM incident.

Martinez is nothing special, but I'd wager that he'd beat Pacquiao. Sergio is slick enough and well conditioned enough that if he could lure Pacquiao into a fight at 154lbs, Manny would be undone. His fanbase would argue that Martinez was too big even though Margarito was the same size.

They may even be correct.

But without Pacquiao taking any risks and relying on Roach and Arum to stack the deck both with weight and targeting opponent coming off losses, Manny's legacy is going to be a steaming pile of shit when all is said and done.

BUT!!!!!!! ... he will have made more money than he would have ANY OTHER WAY. He will have risen higher than he ever dreamed of. And he will have had his moment in the sun.

After all .. isn't that what Manny really always wanted? A moment in the sun? Some time to shine by any means necessary?

The man refused USADA PED tests against ANY boxer literally for years, turned down more money than he's ever made before to take them, and missed out on fighting the best fighter of his era.

Manny Pacquaio has got the PED stigma hanging over his career, and his career and reputation have really taken a hit over his latest gift over JMM.

If Floyd beats Cotto, and then fights and defeats Martinez, Pacquiao will then be yesterday's news.

Its not that Pacquiao was ever anywhere near as accomplished as Floyd at any point .. his first 40 fights in southeast Asia against an array of bums solidifies that argument .. but if Manny ever really wanted a go at greatness he will have to do much more than face Bradley.

And let's just put this out there right now: Manny will have to do it soon before his fans make the pathetic argument that Manny's gotten too old .. even though he's years younger than Mayweather.

[PAKYO]

Floyd's gonna take it in the azz...this thread sums it all up.

[HEZEKYHWH]

Bushbaby, how is Pac cherrypicking a lightweight in Marquez when he is also a lightweight and they have had two close fights before? Marquez outweighed him in the ring but somehow Pac is the Bully. Because the judges did not agree with you does not make them blind. You are bias and they are neutral. Like INDOSMOKE said how does Pac win every round against Mosley and somehow he struggled? Again you say Pac thinks he will lose to Cotto at 154 since he turned that fight down. Newsflash, just because a fighter turns down a fight it does not mean he thinks he will lose that fight. By your logic Floyd thought he would have lost to Winky Wright, Margarito, and the rematch with De La Hoya since he turned down all of those fights. Floyd obviously thought he would lose to Pac since he turned down Pac's offer of a 50 50 split of the purse if we go by your logic.

CONTRADICTION CITY.....

Bushbaby, how is Pac cherrypicking a lightweight in Marquez when he is also a lightweight and they have had two close fights before?

SORRY Pac is a campaigning champion at welter. What the hell have you been watching??

It can be stated that Marquez looked bad in his last outing at welter against FLOYD...., and if what you say is true, then why did PAC not fight him at 140??? Why still make him come up to 147?? Heres why.

You stated this.

Bushbaby you know Pac does not think he would lose to Cotto at 154 so why even say this B.S.? He is not fighting him at 154 because he is the guy calling the shots so why should he let Cotto tell him what weight to fight at? He KOed Cotto so Cotto is the one needing the fight.

Heres x2things wrong with this comment.....
First Pac is supposedly this great warrior but he keeps fighting guys at their NOT optimal weight for belts!!!!. You see its a catch 22, he cant be P4P best when he is always fighting at catchweights... he has to fight at that weight, and even if he doesnt make that weight he cant in turn make the opponent not weigh that. Thats called CHERRY PICKING/WEIGHTDRAINING 2000.

The next thing you stated wrong was ..."COTTO NEEDS THIS FIGHT" Cotto never asked for it, he simply turned Pac down for asking for a catchweight. Manny asked for this fight with stipulations which one cannot logically argue he is pound for pound the best. Because pound for pound, he will drain you and make you fight at a catchweight. The sad thing is that to you this is acceptable...

If Floyd told Sergio he would fight him only at 147, you would be harping and hollering and rightfully so..... I expect nothing less from Floyd than 154, even though I think he will do 160..... But definitely not 153 0r less. If you want a champions belt, beat him air and square for it.

Think about it, if he knows he'll beat Cotto, why meet at a catchweight? Floyd feels Cotto is no match, and is fighting cotto for that belt at the required weight. Now Floyd may not even weigh 154 , (I THINK HE WILL THOUGH) But he is not asking cotto to match him in a catchweight either!!! He beat cotto at x1 catchweight, and many fans screamed this is why Cotto lost, and PACS answer is hey I know lets fight at another catchweight!!!! To which Cotto stated, I am not gonna drain myself for a catchweight.

Like INDOSMOKE said how does Pac win every round against Mosley and somehow he struggled?

Because he made manny look bad, cramping, he couldnt even cut the ring off on a 40 year old fighter past his speedier days, yet this is the pound for pound king?? He cant even cut the ring off and this is boxing 101. When Floyd walked him down, he didnt simply follow him, he cut the ring off!!!
If Floyd would have simply been following Mosley, he wouldnt have been able to walk him down. Floyd did it so effectively that you didnt even notice it.

Again you say Pac thinks he will lose to Cotto at 154 since he turned that fight down . Newsflash, just because a fighter turns down a fight it does not mean he thinks he will lose that fight. By your logic Floyd thought he would have lost to Winky Wright, Margarito, and the rematch with De La Hoya since he turned down all of those fights.

Again bad argument, the difference is that Pac has already beaten Cotto.... But he was beaten at a catchweight. The definition of insanity is to do the same thing looking for different results....

When put into perspective, the only fighter that Floyd fought out of those x3 was Delahoya, and Delahoya was demanding the lions share of the cash again, even though he had just lost and was no longer a title holder. Margarito was at a point when Floyd couldnt dictate anything as his promoter, the same ass hat (ARUM) that didnt wanna give him what he asked for vs delahoya and thought that fight would not do any numbers, but its a record still set today!!!
Man you have horrible comprehension.



PAC IS THE CHAMP, YET KEEPS REQUESTING CATCHWEIGHTS ON PEOPLE YOU STATE HE KNOWS HE CAN BEAT.... THE QUESTION NOW IS WHY?? And dont give me that ***** because he can.... Thats a poor excuse for the man callin himself the best.

The facts are pac has a history of this...

[Bushbaby]

Why limit it to just Cotto?

Pacquiao targeted each and every WW and jrMW he's faced only AFTER they had the biggest loss of their career.

There were catchweights and fight night rehydration clauses involved.

Let's not kid ourselves.

Pacquiao's resume above 135 is INCREDIBLY WEAK. Yet some are desperate enough to suggest that Manny's endeavors above 140 are ATG or even HOF worthy.

Utter nonsense.

The possibility of Pacquiao fighting Martinez is so slim that you could pick corn out of your teeth with it.

Not because it isn't a fight that couldn't be made. Its simply because Pacquiao doesn't take fights where the deck isn't stacked in his favor BEFORE the fight ever happens. Even now Manny is making Bradley come up to 147.

The real question that should be asked is "Why do the fans support Pacquiao fights where weight is usually the determining factor".

I don't blame Pacquiao for doing what he does. Why not? If the boxing writers abide by this shit, and his fanbase is ****** and desperate enough to support it, then why not?

Manny Pacquiao has the adoration of several million peasants, and writer accolades that make him almost seem legitimate, and a promoter who will spin every move he makes for Manny to make him seem honorable.

Manny Pacquiao SHOULD be doing what he has been doing. He should be using catchweights, seeking vacant titles and using rehydration clauses. He should absolutely not risk fighting reigning champions .. because no one will complain when he targets losers.

Its only intelligent to work smarter and not harder if your fanbase is willing to give you equal credit for lesser feats.

In that regard, Martinez is absolutely out of the question. Why should Manny Pacquiao take a chance against a bigger fighter when he could fight smaller men for the same credit?

Bob Arum and Manny Pacquiao are pimps. They are pimping out their own fanbase and loving every minute of it. They are getting rich without taking any big risks. They have their fanbase arguing Manny's greatness for them, because they know of they ever started the conversation themselves they would open the floodgates for scrutiny. So better to seem humble and soft spoken.

Martinez represents what nearly EVERY winning WW represented years ago:

A unnecessary risk that could end it all. Why take risks like that when Manny could sit back, wait for WWs to fight each other and then chose the LOSER at a catchweight? Arum would hype the fight up as if it were David vs Goliath anyway, so its no skin off Manny's back.

What's so sad though is that fighting Miguel Cotto at a comfortable weight while he is still winning was OUT OF THE QUESTION for Team Pacquiao. Its clear that he's not interested in ANY perceived risk after the JMM incident.

Martinez is nothing special, but I'd wager that he'd beat Pacquiao. Sergio is slick enough and well conditioned enough that if he could lure Pacquiao into a fight at 154lbs, Manny would be undone. His fanbase would argue that Martinez was too big even though Margarito was the same size.

They may even be correct.

But without Pacquiao taking any risks and relying on Roach and Arum to stack the deck both with weight and targeting opponent coming off losses, Manny's legacy is going to be a steaming pile of shit when all is said and done.

BUT!!!!!!! ... he will have made more money than he would have ANY OTHER WAY. He will have risen higher than he ever dreamed of. And he will have had his moment in the sun.

After all .. isn't that what Manny really always wanted? A moment in the sun? Some time to shine by any means necessary?

The man refused USADA PED tests against ANY boxer literally for years, turned down more money than he's ever made before to take them, and missed out on fighting the best fighter of his era.

Manny Pacquaio has got the PED stigma hanging over his career, and his career and reputation have really taken a hit over his latest gift over JMM.

If Floyd beats Cotto, and then fights and defeats Martinez, Pacquiao will then be yesterday's news.

Its not that Pacquiao was ever anywhere near as accomplished as Floyd at any point .. his first 40 fights in southeast Asia against an array of bums solidifies that argument .. but if Manny ever really wanted a go at greatness he will have to do much more than face Bradley.

And let's just put this out there right now: Manny will have to do it soon before his fans make the pathetic argument that Manny's gotten too old .. even though he's years younger than Mayweather.

I used Cotto because he already stopped Cotto, picked him in 2012 but wouldn't fight him over 148. So if Pacman wouldn't dare fight Cotto without a size able weight advantage, then clearly he won't fight Martinez at all.

[HEZEKYHWH]

why limit it to just cotto?

Pacquiao targeted each and every ww and jrmw he's faced only after they had the biggest loss of their career.

There were catchweights and fight night rehydration clauses involved.

Let's not kid ourselves.

Pacquiao's resume above 135 is incredibly weak. Yet some are desperate enough to suggest that manny's endeavors above 140 are atg or even hof worthy.

Utter nonsense.

The possibility of pacquiao fighting martinez is so slim that you could pick corn out of your teeth with it.

Not because it isn't a fight that couldn't be made. Its simply because pacquiao doesn't take fights where the deck isn't stacked in his favor before the fight ever happens. Even now manny is making bradley come up to 147.

The real question that should be asked is "why do the fans support pacquiao fights where weight is usually the determining factor".

I don't blame pacquiao for doing what he does. Why not? If the boxing writers abide by this shit, and his fanbase is ****** and desperate enough to support it, then why not?

Manny pacquiao has the adoration of several million peasants, and writer accolades that make him almost seem legitimate, and a promoter who will spin every move he makes for manny to make him seem honorable.

Manny pacquiao should be doing what he has been doing. He should be using catchweights, seeking vacant titles and using rehydration clauses. He should absolutely not risk fighting reigning champions .. Because no one will complain when he targets losers.

Its only intelligent to work smarter and not harder if your fanbase is willing to give you equal credit for lesser feats.

In that regard, martinez is absolutely out of the question. Why should manny pacquiao take a chance against a bigger fighter when he could fight smaller men for the same credit?

Bob arum and manny pacquiao are pimps. They are pimping out their own fanbase and loving every minute of it. They are getting rich without taking any big risks. They have their fanbase arguing manny's greatness for them, because they know of they ever started the conversation themselves they would open the floodgates for scrutiny. So better to seem humble and soft spoken.

Martinez represents what nearly every winning ww represented years ago:

A unnecessary risk that could end it all. Why take risks like that when manny could sit back, wait for wws to fight each other and then chose the loser at a catchweight? Arum would hype the fight up as if it were david vs goliath anyway, so its no skin off manny's back.

What's so sad though is that fighting miguel cotto at a comfortable weight while he is still winning was out of the question for team pacquiao. Its clear that he's not interested in any perceived risk after the jmm incident.

Martinez is nothing special, but i'd wager that he'd beat pacquiao. Sergio is slick enough and well conditioned enough that if he could lure pacquiao into a fight at 154lbs, manny would be undone. His fanbase would argue that martinez was too big even though margarito was the same size.

They may even be correct.

But without pacquiao taking any risks and relying on roach and arum to stack the deck both with weight and targeting opponent coming off losses, manny's legacy is going to be a steaming pile of shit when all is said and done.

but!!!!!!! ... He will have made more money than he would have any other way. He will have risen higher than he ever dreamed of. And he will have had his moment in the sun.

After all .. Isn't that what manny really always wanted? A moment in the sun? Some time to shine by any means necessary?

The man refused usada ped tests against any boxer literally for years, turned down more money than he's ever made before to take them, and missed out on fighting the best fighter of his era.

Manny pacquaio has got the ped stigma hanging over his career, and his career and reputation have really taken a hit over his latest gift over jmm.

If floyd beats cotto, and then fights and defeats martinez, pacquiao will then be yesterday's news.

Its not that pacquiao was ever anywhere near as accomplished as floyd at any point .. His first 40 fights in southeast asia against an array of bums solidifies that argument .. But if manny ever really wanted a go at greatness he will have to do much more than face bradley.

And let's just put this out there right now: Manny will have to do it soon before his fans make the pathetic argument that manny's gotten too old .. Even though he's years younger than mayweather.

^^^^^ this is truuuuuue!!!

[maguirre]

What a meaningless response coming from a g@y a$$ PAC fan.

Yep. I know it hurts when it is said like it is. If you homey's are really reading, the answer to your friend's question, "Why are people not pushing..." is all over the place: Manny is overrated. He cherrypicked his opponents. He fought shot, washed-up fighters. He lost three times to JMM... Your clown friends are basically describing a weak, unskilled Pacman. So why would you want to see Martinez against that kind of boxer? It's silly isn't it? I know.

[iNDOSMOKE]

that fight just showed pac does not really know how to adapt or deal with movement, he did win the fight tho, mosley just didnt pull the trigger... if u understand boxing you would know that mosley shoed the blueprint on how to beat pac... but... if you punch

mosley showed the blue print to survive a fight with pac by moving backwards. if thats what u guys call movements then yes mosley showed a lot of that. if mosley would have trade it would have ended early for him, hint why he didnt trade. im still puzzled as to why mosley couldnt win 1 single round during one of pac's worst night LOL!!! i guess it just shows how good pac really is.

[iNDOSMOKE]

its funny how u guys say mosley was shot and done already when he fought pac thats why he couldnt pull the trigger yet he was able to show all these movements that made pac look bad???? LOL!! so on one hand, mosley is shot, cant pull the trigger then on the other hand mosley showed all these movements to trouble pac??? LOL!! so which one is it??