Has Manny improved?

[Chups]

I'm being called an idiot by someone who doesnt know the difference between a bronze and a gold medal.

You don't know? Bronze medalists are Champs!

[Bring It On]

He peaked in 2009. He improved up until then, after that he's deteriorated.

[Canelo Phresh]

You don't know? Bronze medalists are Champs!

i assume you support rjjs fixed loss at the olympics to.

[-MAKAVELLI-]

i assume you support rjjs fixed loss at the olympics to.

we're comparing it to Roy getting jobbed now? good lawd

[maguirre]

WTF are you even talking about?

Is this thread about Floyd?

Wow.

"Floyd is scared of Paquiao." -- Larry Holmes

Obviously, Floyd doesn't even believe what you've been describing of Pac and Floyd sees something in Pac that fans don't see. And I'd rather believe Floyd, the boxer, himself than mere fans like you.

[junior gong]

lmao what it do SHORT ROUND???

Is this another desperately unfunny attempt at Floydiot humour...I dont follow.

(try the standard unfunny 'u mad' gif or pic, that gets the bumsniffs really frothing!)

[junior gong]

You don't know? Bronze medalists are Champs!

Oh damn!..sorry mate I forgot.

Money maii in tha house..win a bunch g**** and ****!

[KnockUTheFukOut]

But these guys don't want to hear that.

When you pick guys who move forward and have no movement, and then for good measure you throw a mannyweight into the mix, your fighter BETTER look like he's great!

OF COURSE THEY DON'T! But I don't blame Pacquiao fans, I blame the media for having their head stuck up Pacquiao's and Arum's A$$es for all these years and LYING TO PACQUIAO FANS and tell them what they want to hear instead of telling them the truth...THE BOXING MEDIA MADE PACQUAIO FANS THIS WAY!

They made Mayweather a Scapegoat FOR Arum and Pacquiao, this is why they always think that when someone is critical of Pacquiao then "OH YOU MUST BE A MAYWEATHER FAN!"

MANNY (NOT ALL) Pacquiao fans NEED reassurance because they really don't understand boxing, they NEED Larry Merchant and Michael Wilbon and Skip Bayless and Michael Marley and people like that to tell them what they want to hear..."Larry Holmes Said Mayweather Is Scared" well that is Larry's own opinion...does that make him right? NO! That is just how he feels about the situation which is fine, but he is one the outside looking in just like all of us

[savorduhflavor]

Well I thought I ended our last communication pleasantly. Ok then.

I'll just say this:

In order for anyone to measure improvement as it pertains to boxing ability, the boxer must make changes but also the level of competition must change as well.

When was the last time Pacquiao fought a reigning champion before Marquez 2011?

Answer: 2008 against Marquez.

What type of fighters has Pacquiao faced since Marquez?

DLH@145lbs - drained and weakened

Hatton - inside brawler who came to throw hail mary haymakers and completely threw caution to the wind

Cotto@145lbs - drained and weakened

Clottey - plodding and unwilling to exchange

Margarito - drained and weakened plodder who was under

Mosley - stayed on his bicycle and was unwilling to exchange

Marquez III - reigning champion, elite boxer who made Pacquiao look desperate and confused.



Now ... which one of those names is different than the other six???????????

To measure TRUE improvement and not just what Pacquiao can do against weakened fighters, tailor-made plodders and those unwilling to exchange, we have to see Pacquiao fight someone OUTSIDE of those three molds.

We did.

He got embarrassed by a 38 year old man.

When Floyd beat Mosley, it was all about Mosley's age. Now that Marquez kicked Manny's asss at age 38, what's that all about?

I'm sure if we put Manny in against Tito Trinidad RIGHT NOW and Tito came in at 145lbs, Pacquiao could do all kinds of impressive things that would make him seem like he's improved and gone to some next level.

If you're going to debate with me, you're going to have to bring something better than what he did against Cotto at a mannyweight.

I read ALL of your points and they ALL came up wanting because you completely refuse to acknowledge that ANY boxer can look better than he is if his opponent is weakened by catchweights or unwilling to fight back.

Improvement is measured by being able to achieve your objective against a game and capable opponent.

Call all this "pointless". The fact of the matter is that you're trying to build a case for Pacquiao's improvement against a handicapped opponent, and that in itself is weak.

Bro you literally have no argument. You are in way over your head.

You're using the catchweight as a crutch because you lack any actual knowledge.

Regardless of what you think of any of these opponents....if he came at them the way he fought in 2007, he would not have had the same success as he had. If he was just this killer that came in with jab jab straight lefts, he would not have done what he did to Cotto...ANY version of Cotto. The guy has improved, he's better than he used to be, this is not difficult to see. He's still not as good as Marquez and he's nowhere near as good as Mayweather but there's no shame in that and it doesn't mean he hasn't improved.

The only barometer you're using is Marquez....he can't outbox Marquez which is what he tried to do. It doesn't mean he hasn't gotten any better since 2008, that's absurd.

He never looked to set up traps, he never looked to take away his opponents best weapon with counter punching.....he never did these things 5 years ago. And it's not just about him looking good against subpar competition, it's the WAY in which he did it, the methods he took that deviate from his normal style.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this if you can't see past the catchweight.

[maguirre]

MANNY (NOT ALL) Pacquiao fans NEED reassurance because they really don't understand boxing, they NEED Larry Merchant and Michael Wilbon and Skip Bayless and Michael Marley and people like that to tell them what they want to hear..."Larry Holmes Said Mayweather Is Scared" well that is Larry's own opinion...does that make him right? NO! That is just how he feels about the situation which is fine, but he is one the outside looking in just like all of us

Floyd fanboys are all the same. They don't see things normal people do. You don't blame anyone but fighters themselves when the fight is not getting made. In negotiations you don't just say this is what I want and expect the other side to accept it hook line and sinker. That's immaturity and childish. You don't defend something like that just because you're a fan.

You don't even need anybody to support what I'm saying. All you need is your brain.

All you fanboys have been basically saying is Pac is an easy fight for Floyd. Why then do you keep defending roadblocks? That's ******.