Comments Thread For: Klitschko To The Critics: Chisora Was The Best Available

[Pirao]

Yeah, because he ducked Chris Byrd!!

I'm sure you can prove this statement, right?

[dctopboots01]

If not for the brothers.. these aforementioned fighters will have brought back memories of fighters of yesteryear.

1) Samuel Peter... fat, slow and f u c k-all like Tyson

2) Chris Areolla... decent but never great

3) Eddie Chambers... 'Fast' is a joke of a nickname

4) Kevin Johnson... scared

5) David Haye... fast and powerful but needs to take risks

6) Juan Carlos Gomez... again, fat and slow

7) Calvin Brock.... Tony Tucker... Tim Witherspoon... all rubbish

8) Corrie Sanders.. if NOT FOR VITALI.. wouldv'e been the worse champion for years

9)Odlanier Solis... let himself go... used to be in shape

10)Tomasz Adamek... a 'decent' Light-Heavyweight

You are clearly crazy...see the amended truth above!

[4Corners]

You're a book of contrasts.. ain't you son. Let me start with your last paragraph & work my way up.... let's begin.. shall we... "or it was tied depending on who you talk to". You can talk to the hardest core hater of Vitali & they won't be able to tell you that Lennox won 3 rds.. esp. when Vitali landed 60% of the shots that connected in the entire fight.



Threw & LANDED more punches than Lennox in EVERY rd including the ones he lost on the judges scorecards.The 60% shots to LL'S 40% (156-102) punches.. INCLUDES jabs.. power shots & more stagger inducing ones... You KNOW the one type of punch LENNOX landed more than Vitali? It was a cut inducing one.. He landed one more of those than Vitali did... but to be fair Vitali did land one more broken nose shot than LL did.... Do we understand each other?


Ok... now to your middle paragraph & your assumptions that Vitali doesn't dominate in same said fashion he's done throughout his career if the names happen to change. ALL THESE great & good names you mentioned.. who says they're going to be as good or great facing the likes of Klitschko when they never have met fighter of that size skill & stature before. It works both ways...but we conveniently don't look at it in that fashion..



What you're basically saying is that those great to good names get to keep there stature of good to excellent boxing while Vitali doesn't get to keep his stature of domination.. Those guys didn't even dominate in any way shape or form the way Vitali has.. yet they're elevated because they had WARS & vITALI has had only one that was inconclusive..



More wars equals more parody EQUALS everyone involved gets there statuses elevated.. Alltime greats become greater than they actually were... good fighters & borderline journeymen like Norton or Lyle & glass jawed sluggers like Shavers become better than they actually were simply on the FACT they hung with a bonafide alltime great & even stole a victory here or there from them.... The KLITSCHKO'S who have completely annihilated nearly every fighter they've ever faced get destroyed by critics because of the fact no one has been able to really hang with them.. even when they've lost.. they dominated about 80% of the action. They have 5 blemishes collectively in 104 fights..



The ONLY time any one fighter has gotten the best of them was for a measly two rds. 4 of there 5 defeats were normal beatdowns they usually administer that turned into SHOCKING defeats right at the very last minute due to gassing out or injuries/cuts while winning 80% of those rds. Both brothers collectively win 90% of the rds when they've won & only goes down to 80% when they've lost & this percentage decline is only due to losing the last rd(s) of the bouts due to extreme circumstances that they were fighting under...



Those are the facts HATERS everywhere can't seem to fathom.. Sure I WILL definitely AGREE that ALL alltime greats of the past give them a better run for the money than the competition they've faced as that's a given. BUT LET'S STOP ADDING FIGHTERS that are less than alltime greats into that list.. We can honestly say for real that there's only 25-30 heavyweights in history that are REALLY alltime GREAT HEAVIES & the Brother's are two of them.. THESE ARE THE ONLY FIGHTERS THAT SHOULD BE IN THE DISCUSSION TO GIVE THEM A CHALLENGE... EVERYONE ELSE GETS DESTROYED IN THE SAME FASHION CURRENT COMP IS BEING DESTROYED..



Keep it more realistic & i can meet all the haters halfway BUT until you all realize that what you're all doing is taking alltime greats PAST COMPETITION & AUTOMATICALLY GIVING THEM A BYE AS IF THERE IN THE BROTHER'S LEAGUE... WE'LL ALWAYS HAVE A PROBLEM... KEEP the competition & discussion to alltime greats ONLY & yes this is what you're doing when you strip down all the bol**** & that's the REASON i came up with that top 10 list parody.... i was mocking HATERS entire theory & making fun of how idiotic all your arguments are about lack of comp & why it should take away from what the brother's have done.. esp. Vitali who has no fundamental boxing weaknesses besides injuries incurred.



I COULD GO DOWN THE LINE OF EVERY GREAT & FIND YOU A boxing fundamental weakness in his armor that is MORE of a flaw & deterrent to success than getting cut or injured..... that i can assure you... Mayweather... no power.. Marciano...not a master of the sweet science & no life stamina.. Calzaghe... no power & most of punches were blatant slaps... chin average... I just mentioned unbeaten greats that supposedly don't have weaknesses. The ones who've lost...E asy to find a blemish or two that's not cut related or injury based... Got it....... good!

The only problem I had with your post that I responded to originally was that you compared all these average HW's around in their era's, to some really good or ATG HW's. That's just ludicrous.

Even Byrd, maybe the best HW besides the Klitschko's in the 00's, is not an ATG HW at all.

It's not the Klitschko's fault they have fought in the worst HW era ever, but it should be noted. I have said the same thing about Rocky Marciano for years. He came at the right time to look great, when Louis-Charles-Walcott were getting old or already old, and before Floyd Patterson came around to be a real threat.

The Klitschko's have never fought anyone, besides a 37 year old Lennox Lewis (you even have to admit that Vitali wasn't completely dominating, I had it 4 rounds to 2), that was as good as Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis (prime) were in their primes, in there eras. It's not even close. What are the Klitschko's defining wins over great fighters????? They don't have any. H2H, they are probably Top 10 HW's to me, but on the ATG list, taking into account eras-resumes-skills all together, I can't place them any higher than 16-17, 15 at the higest.

Vitali and Wlad get to keep there stature of domination, though Wlad was KO'd but that's another topic. But, the degree of difficulty in the Klitschko's era is far less than it would have been had they fought against people like Liston, Ali, Frazier, Norton, Shavers, Foreman. Or against Holmes or Tyson. Or against Holyfield, Bowe, Moorer, or Lewis in his prime.

They are ATG HW's, but their era hurt them. It's not their fault, but it has to be noted. Perhaps if Vitali and Wlad beat Povetkin and Boytsov, and if Mitchell-Perez-Wilder turn out to be really good and they beat them, I'd be willing to put them right around the Top 10 HW's all-time.

Vitali's best wins: Kirk Johnson, Corrie Sanders, Samuel Peter, Chris Arreola, Kevin Johnson, Shannon Briggs, Odlanier Solis.

Wlad's best wins: Chris Byrd, Samuel Peter, Calvin Brock, Tony Thompson, Eddie Chambers, David Haye.

They are ATG HW's but their era hurt them big time.

[JAB5239]

I'm sure you can prove this statement, right?

Sure I can. Go watch his fight with Byrd. After he quits he tells the fans the he will get his title back yet lets little brother fight him instead while only a month later he takes on the immortal Timo Hoffman.

[jimmy1569]

Last time I checked Wlad and Byrd fought 5 years apart, not twice in a row. And of course Byrd rematched Wlad, he was afraid of no fighter and wanted the absolute best heavyweight at the time. It was on Vitaly's shoulders to redeem himself after quitting by pushing for the Byrd rematch. But like you said, "he had bigger fish to fry" with the likes of Hoffman, Norris, Puritty, Bean and Donald.

I said Lewis was the bigger fish to fry but thx for spinning & truth be told all said fighters were bigger fish who came to fight.. so no shame in those opponents..... they didn't just play defense like the Byrdman & Wlad phocked him up already there was no belt to be had any longer.. it was back with a Klitschko... as for later years.... Byrd & his nuthuggers can spin it all they want. Vitali was busy with other fighters at the time & after he he got the Wbc belt.... there was no unification to be had for awhile until there was public outrage & don King had to give in & let Byrd fight Klitschko WITHOUT having any rights to Wlad afterwards.. For A BELT...




Vitali would've gladly stepped in with Byrd... afterall didn't he choose Byrd ON 12 days notice to begin with & yes Wlad fought him next while Vitali was rehabbing his shoulder.. The Klitschko's did the right thing by fetching Wlad on HIM instead of waiting for Vitali's shoulder to heal & keeping Byrd on the shelf... they should be commended for that & not ridiculed... & let's stop pretending the same exact results & the combination of the two fights Wlad had WITH him doesn't occur with a fully 100% & INTACT Vitali shoulder when everything in Vitali's history suggests he gives Byrd the same beatdown (s) his brother did who btw was fully healthy for both fights.... do we understand each other?

[jimmy1569]

Sure I can. Go watch his fight with Byrd. After he quits he tells the fans the he will get his title back yet lets little brother fight him instead while only a month later he takes on the immortal Timo Hoffman.

Vitali took on an undefeated German fighter who was his size... had one less loss (undefeated) than Vitali & was testing his shoulder against someone who could throw a decent punch. Wlad took care of business instead of leaving Byrd on the shelf for nearly a year... respect that.

[Mikhnienko]

The only problem I had with your post that I responded to originally was that you compared all these average HW's around in their era's, to some really good or ATG HW's. That's just ludicrous.

Even Byrd, maybe the best HW besides the Klitschko's in the 00's, is not an ATG HW at all.

It's not the Klitschko's fault they have fought in the worst HW era ever, but it should be noted. I have said the same thing about Rocky Marciano for years. He came at the right time to look great, when Louis-Charles-Walcott were getting old or already old, and before Floyd Patterson came around to be a real threat.

The Klitschko's have never fought anyone, besides a 37 year old Lennox Lewis (you even have to admit that Vitali wasn't completely dominating, I had it 4 rounds to 2), that was as good as Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis (prime) were in their primes, in there eras. It's not even close. What are the Klitschko's defining wins over great fighters????? They don't have any. H2H, they are probably Top 10 HW's to me, but on the ATG list, taking into account eras-resumes-skills all together, I can't place them any higher than 16-17, 15 at the higest.

Vitali and Wlad get to keep there stature of domination, though Wlad was KO'd but that's another topic. But, the degree of difficulty in the Klitschko's era is far less than it would have been had they fought against people like Liston, Ali, Frazier, Norton, Shavers, Foreman. Or against Holmes or Tyson. Or against Holyfield, Bowe, Moorer, or Lewis in his prime.

They are ATG HW's, but their era hurt them. It's not their fault, but it has to be noted. Perhaps if Vitali and Wlad beat Povetkin and Boytsov, and if Mitchell-Perez-Wilder turn out to be really good and they beat them, I'd be willing to put them right around the Top 10 HW's all-time.

Vitali's best wins: Kirk Johnson, Corrie Sanders, Samuel Peter, Chris Arreola, Kevin Johnson, Shannon Briggs, Odlanier Solis.

Wlad's best wins: Chris Byrd, Samuel Peter, Calvin Brock, Tony Thompson, Eddie Chambers, David Haye.

They are ATG HW's but their era hurt them big time.

I think you're trying to be fair and unbias but i do see a couple flaws in what you're saying.

Regarding you're claims that they haven't beat any other ATG HW's that's accurate yet take a look at the HW's you list Liston, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis.

Dempsey - Sharkey, Willard
Louis - Sharkey, Walcott, Baer, Schmeling
Marciano - Old Louis, "Moore, "Walcott, Charles
Patterson - Ingo
Liston - Patterson
Holmes - old Norton, Berbick, Mercer (ZombAli don't count)
Tyson - Berbick, old Holmes,
Bowe - Holyfield
Lewis - Old Holy, Old Tyson

Aside from the 70's trio what other ATG beat another prime ATG? Bowe and Holyfield with eachother and then probably Louis with some lower tier ATG's. I agree with your criticism of Marciano but most the other ATG HW's are either missing a fellow ATG (certainly top ones) or beat a old one. Dempsey, Patterson, Liston, Tyson are missing a top tier ATG and Marciano, Holmes, Lewis have old ones.

For Volodymyr you don't list Chagaev or Ibragimov and for Vitali no JCG, Hide, Donald, or Adamek. It seems like we're just going to disagree on this but again i'll say that there is little disparity between the quality of top fighters in most eras. You're naming guys like Shavers and Moorer as if they're ATG's or any more quality than what this era has, they aren't. Guys like Chagaev, Ibragimov, Byrd, JCG, Peter, Chambers would have been top 10 fighters in any era, would get wins over some other top contenders and be capable of competing with that eras Champion.

About the rest of their careers i agree. I hope Volodymyr in particular starts going after emerging HW's likely to hold belts once they retire like Boytsov, Pulev, Glazkov, Szpilka, Povetkin, Price, Helenius, etc so their legacy will continue to get better after retirement.

[ShoulderRoll]

Lewis - Old Holy, Old Tyson

Old Lewis beat Vitali, let's not forget.

[Mikhnienko]

Old Lewis beat Vitali, let's not forget.

So you saying he's an ATG and Lennox's best win?

[joe strong]

I said Lewis was the bigger fish to fry but thx for spinning & truth be told all said fighters were bigger fish who came to fight.. so no shame in those opponents..... they didn't just play defense like the Byrdman & Wlad phocked him up already there was no belt to be had any longer.. it was back with a Klitschko... as for later years.... Byrd & his nuthuggers can spin it all they want. Vitali was busy with other fighters at the time & after he he got the Wbc belt.... there was no unification to be had for awhile until there was public outrage & don King had to give in & let Byrd fight Klitschko WITHOUT having any rights to Wlad afterwards.. For A BELT...




Vitali would've gladly stepped in with Byrd... afterall didn't he choose Byrd ON 12 days notice to begin with & yes Wlad fought him next while Vitali was rehabbing his shoulder.. The Klitschko's did the right thing by fetching Wlad on HIM instead of waiting for Vitali's shoulder to heal & keeping Byrd on the shelf... they should be commended for that & not ridiculed... & let's stop pretending the same exact results & the combination of the two fights Wlad had WITH him doesn't occur with a fully 100% & INTACT Vitali shoulder when everything in Vitali's history suggests he gives Byrd the same beatdown (s) his brother did who btw was fully healthy for both fights.... do we understand each other?

sorry to tell you this but byrd fought wlad the 2nd time because he was paid 2 million dollars & it was by far his biggest purse. had nothing to do with public pressure. byrd was getting out of king contract.