Miguel Cotto is MORE or as Shot as Antonio Margarito!

[Mojita]

Whos been more active though ? Fights Mosley, then year ban. garcia, pacquiao bad beating, year off.

marrgs only getting older, and i dount hell be as sharp in the beginning or at all as a layoff hurts. Esp when your a brawler even worse. You can train longer and spar more, wont take away the rust

[DrewWoodside]

Cotto has lost a bit since being beaten down by plaster and having fought out of his natural boxing weight(147) has make him look slower than usual in the ring.

Margarito on the other hand, like all fighters throughout boxing history, has lost some of his punching resistance due to all the punishment he has taken throughout his career and especially the beatings he received in the Cotto, Mosley, and Pacquiao fights.

Even if you think Miguel is more shot, if Cotto's stamina is were I think the Cuban trainer will have it, at elite level, Cotto is in a different class and should beat Margarito via UD or TKO/KO.

Once again, I think we're doing a lot of assumption in just expecting Cotto's new trainer to have overnight success with improving Cotto's stamina. It's not like Cotto was previously a lazy fighter in training. He never came in like a slouch. He has very good stamina, but in grueling drawn out fights where he can't really hurt his man.. It's not poor stamina to fade somewhat in the late rounds.

Cotto's new trainer has a great story, but how many elite pros has he already converted into having great stamina? Also, he doesn't even have one fight under his belt with Cotto.. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's no small task. However I do agree, if Cotto can find a way to stay fresh for 12 rounds. It will give Margarito a lot of problems.

[Russian Crushin]

This is my point, but a lot of NSB and casual fans(yes I think some casual fans are actually interested in this fight) are assuming Margs is more shot. Based on a very glancing overview of what each respective fighter has done recently. However, this is Imo 100% assumption since it's not based on anything solid.

Well since 2008 Marg has been nothing except decision some prospect/journey man and has been demolished in 2 horrendous beatings

While Cotto hasnt really faced anyone elite, he has faced 2 much better fighters then Garcia and KO's them both while not in spectacular fashion, so i see a point being made for Marg being more shot.

And obviously its an assumption. How can you have anything "solid" on how shot a fighter will be in the ring?

[JmH Reborn]

a couple of points

--Many pundits, fans and those in the profession were split on the outcome of Cotto/Foreman. Many believed that Arum was offering Cotto up as a sacrificial lamb to hopefully Arum's newest star. Foreman had the edge in speed, boxing, weight and yadda yadda and Cotto dominated him. Whether his knee went out or not, Foreman was getting outclassed and now people want to degrade the win and the fighter. He wasn't completely healthy for the Wolak fight. He barely moved and sat there and let Wolak destroy him. Pro football players take more than a year to recover to the point of where they once were, prior to the injury. The fight showed that Cotto still has some speed, power and can recover from an ass whupping.

I think the Mayorga fight was just putting rounds in as well, remember he [Cotto] was coming off of shoulder injury on his right arm. He went almost a year between the Foreman and Mayorga fights. He controlled about 99% of the fight and then took him out. It think its fallacy to compare how he'd perform compared to Tito or Oscar, two guys that are much bigger than Cotto with more punching power.

-When it comes to Margarito, his biggest issue will be the layoff and then coming back against someone of Cotto's caliber. If he avoids getting beat down in the early goings, then he'll have a shot. I think Cotto is coming for that belly, because in the Pac fight, it was all good for Tony until the 4th when Pac folded him over with a belly shot, then Pac teed off on Margarito until he broke his face. I think Cotto is coming hard [or so I hope] for that body and if Margarito can either take it or whither it, its going to be a long and good ass fight.

When it comes to being shot, its so subjective and trolls here always say that so and so is shot based off of one loss. I guarantee that the moment, if ever Floyd loses a fight, the trolls will be out in force and say he's shot. When I think of shot, I think of fighters like Cintron in his last fight, hesistant and unable to throw a punch. Thats a guy who's shot. Cotto is still going. He isn't the terminator like he was years prior, but it doesn't make him shot. Margarito, same thing; the mystery will be his demeanor in the ring. But I trust that Tony is coming and loading up on body shots and upper cuts and the winner will be based on basically who wants it more in the championship rounds

[DrewWoodside]

Whos been more active though ? Fights Mosley, then year ban. garcia, pacquiao bad beating, year off.

marrgs only getting older, and i dount hell be as sharp in the beginning or at all as a layoff hurts. Esp when your a brawler even worse. You can train longer and spar more, wont take away the rust

Suppose Margarito is a bit more rusty. But the person who will need to be freshest is Cotto. Everyone's plan for him is to stay on his toes and box for 12 full rounds against a bigger man.

Margarito just has to do the same ugly thing he always does. Come forward, block punches with his face, and throw his slow but accumulating punches. <---- All of those things will drain Cotto's energy. He's no master of craft, but he's got incredible will, and if a guy has trouble with his style. He's always going to bring it.

[savorduhflavor]

Very fair points.

I thought the Margarito that fought Pac was a good version of Marg in with the(arguably) best fighter in the world that was a bady stylistic matchup for him. But I thought Margarito looked very good in that fight.

The only thing I can conclude as to why the perception is that Marg is more shot is because.........we've seen Cotto post Pacquiao. We haven't seen Margarito post Pacquiao so we have no idea what he's going to look like, plus he had the eye injury.

I agree it's an unjust perception......but it think the mystery surrounding him is what makes people make that assumption.

[DrewWoodside]

Well since 2008 Marg has been nothing except decision some prospect/journey man and has been demolished in 2 horrendous beatings

While Cotto hasnt really faced anyone elite, he has faced 2 much better fighters then Garcia and KO's them both while not in spectacular fashion, so i see a point being made for Marg being more shot.

And obviously its an assumption. How can you have anything "solid" on how shot a fighter will be in the ring?

A guy can come out and not be able to take punches in recent fights. Or get tired earlier than he usually does. Or quit. There's a lot of ways to have solid reasons to believe a man is shot. Judging from what I've seen of Roy Jones Jr lately, I have solid reasons to believe he is shot.

[DrewWoodside]

Very fair points.

I thought the Margarito that fought Pac was a good version of Marg in with the(arguably) best fighter in the world that was a bady stylistic matchup for him. But I thought Margarito looked very good in that fight.
The only thing I can conclude as to why the perception is that Marg is more shot is because.........we've seen Cotto post Pacquiao. We haven't seen Margarito post Pacquiao so we have no idea what he's going to look like, plus he had the eye injury.
I agree it's an unjust perception......but it think the mystery surrounding him is what makes people make that assumption.

See I also felt this way. I think how you view Margarito's performance in this fight determines how a person will view my points in this thread. Although he got completely whooped. I think he still showed he does the same things he always does as well as he's always done it. If anything, and I've read other people point this out as well. He threw less winging punches, almost to the point that perhaps Garcia helped him slightly from a technical standpoint.

Imo, Margarito looks more filled out and stronger above 147 at this point. At least against Cotto. Margarito looks awful against people the same size as him or bigger. Cotto however is neither of those things. I think the eye injury could end up being a big part of this too. But once again, there's no way to know for sure what the effect will be. All and all there will likely be a few surprises on Saturday night.

[Russian Crushin]

A guy can come out and not be able to take punches in recent fights. Or get tired earlier than he usually does. Or quit. There's a lot of ways to have solid reasons to believe a man is shot. Judging from what I've seen of Roy Jones Jr lately, I have solid reasons to believe he is shot.

But the point is we havent really seen Marg fight in years, 2 terrible beatings. So basically what "solid" reasons do you have that Marg isnt actually shot? I personally dont see any

RJJ is a different story because thats such an extreme point, he went from untouchable to KO king.

[DrewWoodside]

a couple of points

--Many pundits, fans and those in the profession were split on the outcome of Cotto/Foreman. Many believed that Arum was offering Cotto up as a sacrificial lamb to hopefully Arum's newest star. Foreman had the edge in speed, boxing, weight and yadda yadda and Cotto dominated him. Whether his knee went out or not, Foreman was getting outclassed and now people want to degrade the win and the fighter. He wasn't completely healthy for the Wolak fight. He barely moved and sat there and let Wolak destroy him. Pro football players take more than a year to recover to the point of where they once were, prior to the injury. The fight showed that Cotto still has some speed, power and can recover from an ass whupping.

I think the Mayorga fight was just putting rounds in as well, remember he [Cotto] was coming off of shoulder injury on his right arm. He went almost a year between the Foreman and Mayorga fights. He controlled about 99% of the fight and then took him out. It think its fallacy to compare how he'd perform compared to Tito or Oscar, two guys that are much bigger than Cotto with more punching power.

-When it comes to Margarito, his biggest issue will be the layoff and then coming back against someone of Cotto's caliber. If he avoids getting beat down in the early goings, then he'll have a shot. I think Cotto is coming for that belly, because in the Pac fight, it was all good for Tony until the 4th when Pac folded him over with a belly shot, then Pac teed off on Margarito until he broke his face. I think Cotto is coming hard [or so I hope] for that body and if Margarito can either take it or whither it, its going to be a long and good ass fight.

When it comes to being shot, its so subjective and trolls here always say that so and so is shot based off of one loss. I guarantee that the moment, if ever Floyd loses a fight, the trolls will be out in force and say he's shot. When I think of shot, I think of fighters like Cintron in his last fight, hesistant and unable to throw a punch. Thats a guy who's shot. Cotto is still going. He isn't the terminator like he was years prior, but it doesn't make him shot. Margarito, same thing; the mystery will be his demeanor in the ring. But I trust that Tony is coming and loading up on body shots and upper cuts and the winner will be based on basically who wants it more in the championship rounds

I agree about Cintron being a grade A example of what a shot fighter looks like. Also, that noobs and trolls should never have been given usage of the word "Shot." It's incredibly misused and a very difficult term to apply. More frequently misapplied than correctly. This is one of those fights where we'll have all our answers Saturday. Too many uncertain variables to know anything for sure.