Comments Thread For: Team Sergio Martinez: We Will Never Let Him Fight at 168!

[LeadUppercut]

if the last fight he held at 154lbs would be the 8th, then it's correct. Nothing wrong of claiming on this!

Correct! you can not deny history, while at 145lbs, Pac fought Margarito at catch-weight of 152lbs of which a title was at stake, that Pac won!

partially right.. because actually, JMW is from 147.0000001 lbs to 154.0 lbs, and 152lbs is rightly at JMW!!!

still that is above 147lbs that pac will fight. He abandoned the idea of WW vs. JMW because of weight disparity he experienced when he fought Margarito! Though he won, he was hurt from Margarito's punches! Enough for 1 try, afterall, boxing is a sport not for suicide! But i suggest, Martinez should also try fighting once to SMW, just like Pac did fighting once in JMW, before Martinez will dare telling he is not belong to SMW, so he will know what he is talking!

, Might be Martinez deaf, or plainly scared fighting others that posed true oppositions! Pac said after fighting Margarito, he will not come back to JMW because of what he experienced thast hurts him in the so called "WW vs. JMW", that's why he abandoned his title at JMW! Why not offer Bhop for 163 catchweight then if Martinez true to his word challenging Pac at 150lbs????

You're nuts if you think that Pac is a genuine JMW champ.

And the JMW limit is 154 dude, I am an old-school boxing-fan, so there is no use in trying to peddle that catch-weight bull**** to me. Many of my favorite fighters fought under the original divisional system, so I find it pathetic that in todays age where we have what 17 divisions?..... Pacquiao is supposed to be a P4P champion and yet he needs a catch-weight to fight anyone live.

That is rubbish to me.

[Mikhnienko]

Martinez is a b1tch. Already know.

[Horvo]

You're nuts if you think that Pac is a genuine JMW champ.

And the JMW limit is 154 dude, I am an old-school boxing-fan, so there is no use in trying to peddle that catch-weight bull**** to me. Many of my favorite fighters fought under the original divisional system, so I find it pathetic that in todays age where we have what 17 divisions?..... Pacquiao is supposed to be a P4P champion and yet he needs a catch-weight to fight anyone live.

That is rubbish to me.

So you must also realize that same day weigh-ins totally changed the equation. Pacquiao is one of the few WW's that could handle same day weigh-ins. With a same day weigh in PAC would fight Sergio at 154, maybe even 160. How much did Armstrong's opponent weigh for his MW shot? Well under 160 on the same day.

[LeadUppercut]

So you must also realize that same day weigh-ins totally changed the equation. Pacquiao is one of the few WW's that could handle same day weigh-ins. With a same day weigh in PAC would fight Sergio at 154, maybe even 160. How much did Armstrong's opponent weigh for his MW shot? Well under 160 on the same day.

Dont be ridiculous, same-day weigh-ins changed nothing.

The amount of muscle-mass and conditioning that you take into a fight is solely determined at the official weigh-in, rehydration weight is irrelevant, and can even be detrimental..... now that there are multitudes of divisions, having same-day weigh-ins would make little difference because a division only ranges from between 5-7lbs now, as opposed to the 12-15lbs back in the day.

And that was a safety issue, not a " protect pac " issue

You clowns are absurd comparing Pacquiao to Armstrong. Armstrong achieved greatness as the smaller man, Pacquiao will not even fight anyone dangerous in his own division without a catch-weight.

Do you really think that Armstrong would have fought for a VACANT JMW title, at CATCH-WEIGHT, against a WELTERWEIGHT bum, using 8oz gloves?

FACT: Armstrong would fight Martinez, pu55y Pacquiao will not.

[Horvo]

Dont be ridiculous, same-day weigh-ins changed nothing.

The amount of muscle-mass and conditioning that you take into a fight is solely determined at the official weigh-in, rehydration weight is irrelevant, and can even be detrimental..... now that there are multitudes of divisions, having same-day weigh-ins would make little difference because a division only ranges from between 5-7lbs now, as opposed to the 12-15lbs back in the day.

And that was a safety issue, not a " protect pac " issue

You clowns are absurd comparing Pacquiao to Armstrong. Armstrong achieved greatness as the smaller man, Pacquiao will not even fight anyone dangerous in his own division without a catch-weight.

Do you really think that Armstrong would have fought for a VACANT JMW title, at CATCH-WEIGHT, against a WELTERWEIGHT bum, using 8oz gloves?

FACT: Armstrong would fight Martinez, pu55y Pacquiao will not.

Rehydration weight is irrelevant? Seriously? So if Ortiz had only been able to add three pounds of water against PBF he would have been just fine? In fact he would have been better because rehydrating is "detrimental"? Wow.

And I don't think Pac could ever equal Armstrong no matter what he does the rest of his career, but it's also true that when he fought for the MW title Ceferino Garcia was 5-6 and weighed in under 154 on the day of the fight.

[LeadUppercut]

Rehydration weight is irrelevant? Seriously? So if Ortiz had only been able to add three pounds of water against PBF he would have been just fine? In fact he would have been better because rehydrating is "detrimental"? Wow.

And I don't think Pac could ever equal Armstrong no matter what he does the rest of his career, but it's also true that when he fought for the MW title Ceferino Garcia was 5-6 and weighed in under 154 on the day of the fight.

Hold on !!

I did not say that rehydration was detrimental, I said that it can be detrimental. If you rehydrate incorrectly, or take on too much water over a short period of time, it can definitely be detrimental, no question.

Some guys on this site try to make out that gaining 12lbs of water overnight will turn you into a beast, but the sole amount of muscle-mass and conditioning that you can take into the fight was determined one day prior.

And what does 3lbs have to do with this conversation ?

Where did you get that figure from, it doesn't seem relevant ?

Dude, if 3 lbs is a problem under same day weigh-in rules, then you need to fight in a higher division, just like actual greats used to do..... and the situation is the same for the guy in the opposite corner because he was required to make the same weight under the same conditions.

Garcia was a middleweight, regardless as to what he weighed, I bet that he significantly outweighed Armstrong.

Also, I seem to recall that fight wasnt officially recognised ?

Could be wrong there, but I remember some controversy surrounding it.

I agree with your point about Armstrong, but the problem is, there are many fighters that I also rate higher than Pacquiao, for that exact same reason. He is simply not on Armstrong's level.

What that specific example proved is..... that Armstrong was willing to fight a larger man without disadvantaging him by way of catch-weight.

[Tulisanto]

Hold on !!

I did not say that rehydration was detrimental, I said that it can be detrimental. If you rehydrate incorrectly, or take on too much water over a short period of time, it can definitely be detrimental, no question.

Some guys on this site try to make out that gaining 12lbs of water overnight will turn you into a beast, but the sole amount of muscle-mass and conditioning that you can take into the fight was determined one day prior.

And what does 3lbs have to do with this conversation ?

Where did you get that figure from, it doesn't seem relevant ?

Dude, if 3 lbs is a problem under same day weigh-in rules, then you need to fight in a higher division, just like actual greats used to do..... and the situation is the same for the guy in the opposite corner because he was required to make the same weight under the same conditions.

Garcia was a middleweight, regardless as to what he weighed, I bet that he significantly outweighed Armstrong.

Also, I seem to recall that fight wasnt officially recognised ?

Could be wrong there, but I remember some controversy surrounding it.

I agree with your point about Armstrong, but the problem is, there are many fighters that I also rate higher than Pacquiao, for that exact same reason. He is simply not on Armstrong's level.

What that specific example proved is..... that Armstrong was willing to fight a larger man without disadvantaging him by way of catch-weight.

Catchweight fights
Joe Gans D20 Joe Walcott, 20/9/1904
Jimmy McLarnin W10 Pancho Villa -- Emeryville, Calif., July 4, 1925
Barney Ross SD Jimmy McLarnin, 28/5/1934

Armstrong TKO 6 Jenkins, 7/17/1940
Emile Griffith KO9 Dave Charnley, 1/12/1964
Ray Leonard vs Donnie Lalonde (two division title belts(SMW and LHW) on the line at 168 )
Ray Leonard vs Tommy Hearns 2

[Maidana vs Rios]

If he doesn't even weigh 168 on fight night, then he shouldn't fight guys that weigh in at 168. No one should have a problem here.

EDIT: Let me rephrase that, I understand why he wouldn't fight guys at 168. He'd face the same type of size disadvantage someone like, I don't know, Manny Pacquiao would facing him.

Martinez weighed 170 fight night when he fought Dzinzizzrizrrizrrrzi.

Froch weighed 169 fight night when he fought Abraham.
(source: http://www.eatthemushroom.com/mag/article.asp?id=1502)