The Flaws of The Klitschko Brothers

[I_like_wendys]

at the butthurt Americans. I know its bad that your only hope lies in Deontay Wilder.

And this guy. Wilder and this guy.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hum...8261&cat=boxer

[A7glow]

I've made such threads in the past

but I'm done talking Klitschko flaws, too many people can't deal with the truth

I'm beginning to see that. I'm sure that many didn't even bother to read my posts on both the brothers. I acknowledge that they are both excellent fighters and very skilled, but I just so happened to note some flaws and point out the kinds of things they struggle with. They aren't perfect fighters, great, but not perfect.

[Grinderman]

I'm beginning to see that. I'm sure that many didn't even bother to read my posts on both the brothers. I acknowledge that they are both excellent fighters and very skilled, but I just so happened to note some flaws and point out the kinds of things they struggle with. They aren't perfect fighters, great, but not perfect.

That is a really brilliant observation. And neither is any other heavyweight present or past. So ****ing what? Was Mike Tyson perfect? -- didn't look like it against Buster Douglas. Was Lennox Lewis perfect? -- didn't look like it against Hasim Rahman. I guess you can say Marciano was perfect, but most people hit him with the same old saw of not fighting anyone but old men. You want to find flaws, you can find them no matter WHO it is -- but many here just want to find them with the Klitschkos.

[BostonGuy]

Personal attacks on other posters will not be tolerated in my forum. It's perfectly fine to debate with other posters but name calling and all this other b.s. in this thread is not acceptable. I'm all for joking around and poking fun at other posters but, again, personal attacks are not allowed.

Let's keep the debates civil, fun and knowledgeable. Alright, I understand this is NSB; let's keep the debates civil and fun...

That is all..

[A7glow]

That is a really brilliant observation. And neither is any other heavyweight present or past. So ****ing what? Was Mike Tyson perfect? -- didn't look like it against Buster Douglas. Was Lennox Lewis perfect? -- didn't look like it against Hasim Rahman. I guess you can say Marciano was perfect, but most people hit him with the same old saw of not fighting anyone but old men. You want to find flaws, you can find them no matter WHO it is -- but many here just want to find them with the Klitschkos.

I chose to dote on the Klitschkos because they have been leading in the heavyweight division for a number of years now, and I find it interesting that the fighters have obvious flaws but no one in this era seems capable of exploiting them. Why would I chose to point out the flaws in a less skilled, less dominant fighter? Think about it for a moment-I chose them because they are the heavyweights to beat. You, as well as several other posters, seem to get offended when anyone criticizes the Klitschkos rather than showering them with praise. This thread is no different than any of the other threads that point out a boxer's greatness but also point out some of his/her's flaws. Calm down.

[Mr. Invincible]

I've made such threads in the past

but I'm done talking Klitschko flaws, too many people can't deal with the truth

Flaws mean nothing if they don't get exploited. The Klitschko's are too good. Get used to it. They are here for a while longer. Nothing will ever happen like this again in boxing. You guys should give credit where it is due.

[Grinderman]

Flaws mean nothing if they don't get exploited. The Klitschko's are too good. Get used to it. They are here for a while longer. Nothing will ever happen like this again in boxing. You guys should give credit where it is due.

Excellent post! Green K sent.

[Grinderman]

I chose to dote on the Klitschkos because they have been leading in the heavyweight division for a number of years now, and I find it interesting that the fighters have obvious flaws but no one in this era seems capable of exploiting them. Why would I chose to point out the flaws in a less skilled, less dominant fighter? Think about it for a moment-I chose them because they are the heavyweights to beat. You, as well as several other posters, seem to get offended when anyone criticizes the Klitschkos rather than showering them with praise. This thread is no different than any of the other threads that point out a boxer's greatness but also point out some of his/her's flaws. Calm down.

No fighter is perfect, and I'm not laboring under the illusion that the Klitschkos are the exception. But what you are doing, wittingly or not, is just providing fodder for the haters to take more shots at them. Does anybody really believe JAB and cronies are objective? The best they ever do is damn the brothers with faint praise, which is always recognizable by the "I like the Klitschkos, but..." phrase.

When you read that "but" you know what is coming next.

[A7glow]

Yet here you are posting in this thread. Why not contribute positively? If you disagree with something or wish to add an honest critique or opinion, do so. But don't attack other thread members. Let's just keep this about boxing rather than being so reactive. (And this isn't just about you, Grinderman) Again, this thread is no different than those that analyze other all-time greats but also highlight their flaws. For both Klitschko "haters" and "lovers," it's really not that deep, guys.

[cupocity303]

I'm not entirely sure if a thread of this type has been put up before, and I apologize if it has, but I thought, for those that are interested, we could discuss the ways in which either of the Klitschko brothers could be beaten.

First and foremost, I like the style of both of the Klitschko brothers. I think that they are both excellent fighters and phenomenal athletes, if either was not the case they would not be dominating the heavyweight division like they are in spite of the dearth of talent.

However, I have noticed flaws in both fighters, that, with great skill, can be exploited. I've noticed more flaws in Wladimir than I have in Vitali-I view Vitali as the greater fighter though I think his opposition has not been as good as consistently as his brother's.

Beginning with Wladimir, I will start with his positives and why they make him so dominant. Wladimir, unlike so many of his heavyweight opponents maintains himself even while not fighting. He does not blow up an extra thirty pounds in-between fights, instead he remains in great shape. That means that he can recover quickly after fights, suffers fewer problematic injuries, and can jump into training camp and begin working on his skills versus just trying to get in shape. He is a very solid with little body fat and the only way a fighter can maintain that, especially at his size and weight, is to be consistent and disciplined in his or her's workout regiment.

Aside from that, he is very tall with an incredible reach. And his style suits his physical attributes perfectly. Some say all he does is jab, but if you've ever been on the other side of a good jab, you'll realize that there is a lot more to what he does. For example, most of his opponents stay on the end of that jab. His reach advantage is a huge factor, but he wouldn't be able to maintain that distance if it weren't for timing and speed and even more importantly-angles.

Most of Wlad's opponents have very slow feet and fight flat-footed. They tend to distribute their weight almost evenly between their two legs and so remain rooted and thus react and attack slowly. What makes it even worse is that so many are terrible at fighting off a straight line. Wlad's jab is effective because his opponents tend to through looping shots in an attempt to reach his head (which is foolish when at a distance, he's much too tall) and come in straight lines. For someone with long arms and a powerful jab, that's perfect. Wlad literally has to do very little work. When they lunge in with a wide-shot (short, wide shots are good for in-fighting only because they are hard to see, at a distance they can make a fighter vulnerable to counters) he simply has to a) jab and b) step off of the line. Once Wlad has done this, he makes the slower fighter reset and they are back at square one. And if they do manage to get in close, he simply ties them up, the ref breaks them apart and he's back to jabbing.

Another attribute is his power. The man can punch. His jab hurts, I'm sure. But his right hand can be devastating and it also accurate. With all of that power, I'm sure that he makes fighters wary of it and this can affect how they approach the fight. Wlad is also athletic and can move fairly quickly on his feet. This also helps him in maintaining the perfect range to throw his punches.

Mostly agree with all of this.

But his flaws:

Wladimir Klitschko cannot fight on the inside. As I mentioned previously, what Wlad does do when an opponent finally works his way past his jab is clinch. He ties up fighters quickly and he is strong, but he lacks the ability to fight on the inside. A skilled and fast fighter who throws combinations(Prime Mike Tyson, for example) once past that long jab would be able to exploit his inability to fight at close range and punish Wlad to the body and head.

Wladimir Klitschko cannot fight going backwards. This is directly related to his inability to fight on the inside. He doesn't really know how to fight off of the back foot. His discomfort is clear when he is backing up and he tends to stop throwing altogether or throw even less. A skilled fighter with good footwork who works off of angles well and has great upper body and head movement would be able to take full advantage of this. In fact, the only way I can see Wlad being beaten is if he is forced to go backwards by a skilled aggressor.

Wlad can be VERY passive at times. Against a fighter who works off of angles and gets past his jab and who forces him to go backwards consistently, Wlad could lose on points (though I doubt I'll ever see that happening) or possibly get stopped. He doesn't like to throw combinations frequently, which would prevent the above from happening.

And lastly, Wlad can sometimes pull his head straight back when trying to avoid punches instead of stepping off of the line, pivoting, or just moving his head side to side. He just doesn't have good head movement, and I understand, how many opponents can actually reach his head without getting hit first? However, a flaw is still a flaw, and it can be exploited.

The kind of fighter able to exploit all of the above flaws, however, just doesn't exist in this era.

The premise here is wrong. You're working under the assumption that HE has to fight on the inside. He doesn't. Inside fighting is for smaller fighters, with shorter arms. They're the ones who are supposed to work his body, not the other way around. Ali didn't hit the body too much, he didn't have to. Why should Wlad lower himself to his opponents level and fight on the inside, when he can be The Ring General 85% of the fight, and keep his smaller opponent on the outside, trying to reach in/get in.

It's not a flaw, it's by design. Wlad is One-Dimensional by design, but that one-dimension is far better than any other One-Dimension of any other fighter.

I do however agree with some of your points on what it would take to beat him, however that wouldn't be Mike Tyson, who you cited. I don't wanna break away from the topic at hand, and go about Mike's flaws.

We are talking about a mythical fighter here, with some of the tools a Iron Mike might have, along with great conditioning of another fighter.